While we do #Denmark #Danmark #USA #Greenland #Arctic drama, don't forget the #Inuit, the people who live there
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Thanks, that's a nice proposal. As you point out, any national-scale entity is likely significantly changed from your thoughts as written. I'd add that there's no reason to stop there, and that there could be a supranational tier. I don't know a lot about Soviet history, but it does sound like the many smaller & the "supreme" soviet in that union
.I don't see it solving the problems of the US in time to save the US. Primary'ing the Dems can show results fast.
Also, cultures change rapidly and uncontrollably. Collegiate and cooperative assemblies can sour into acrimonious rows. I'm not saying tiered governance is not worth trying, I am saying watch out.
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Also, cultures change rapidly and uncontrollably. Collegiate and cooperative assemblies can sour into acrimonious rows. I'm not saying tiered governance is not worth trying, I am saying watch out.
The earliest stages would require a retiree in-post or taxation to get started - the initial representatives are full-time positions. Someone or thing would have to pay them. Also, because they have no legal authority, such representatives have little power unless they have a budget.
How do you avoid the early tier system becoming a subscription club? Or is this something you want it to become?
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@eswag @benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @Pepijn
Also the two shit sandwiches were basically a burger where someone wiped their ass with the lettuce and one where someone replaced the patty with a turd and you're not asked "which one would you rather eat now, if you say neither you get none" but "which one should we force everyone to eat daily for the next 4 years, there is no none"
@gbargoud @benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @Pepijn
I see you've heard of British cuisine
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@gbargoud @eswag @TCatInReality @grumble209 @Pepijn
accurate but for uh various reasons i'm not going to boost this particular analogy -
@eswag @benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @Pepijn
Also the two shit sandwiches were basically a burger where someone wiped their ass with the lettuce and one where someone replaced the patty with a turd and you're not asked "which one would you rather eat now, if you say neither you get none" but "which one should we force everyone to eat daily for the next 4 years, there is no none"
@gbargoud @benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @Pepijn
In matters scatological, political and criminal, you are the very model of a modern major general!That's culture, that is.
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@benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn I respectfully disagree.
As far as I can tell, parties are the storefronts where big money donors go shopping to buy corrupt politicians.
I will not support a political party. I will support the good candidates that I trust. People - with ideas - not parties.
There's nothing about political parties in my Constitution, and that's good enough for me.
We may have to disagree about this.
@grumble209 @benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn For the most part, the “Founding Fathers” agreed with you too. Unfortunately, they just ignored how political parties arise and built the perfect Duverger’s Law structure. One way to sidestep Duverger’s Law is proportional representation(which is built on parties). Some form of preference or instant run-off voting <i>might<\i> work. Or repeated elections…
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The US also has primaries that don't get the attention they deserve. The Democrats are an appalling neoliberal far-right party, in the main, and the US's choice of Trump as an act of desperation is understandable from the POV of the status quo being intolerable.
The Wolf PAC's introduction of AOC, Rashida Tlaib etc. is what should be happening wholesale.
Without this, the Dems are a holding pattern before the next nosedive.
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@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn
but we don't disagree
i agree with you 100%
you say you'll support good candidates
great
me too
so when i say "take over the democratic party" what am i really saying?
getting good candidates forward
that the vehicle is a party is merely a rational tactic, it isn't the destruction of all that is good in the world
and if the candidates are good enough, and we get ranked choice voting from them, we can start talking about killing political parties
@benroyce @grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn And if the underlying party decides to support the MAGAt in favor of the winner of the primary? Well, you’ve seen that with Mamdani. In some sense he benefited. Although, it helped that the other post-Democrat was too corrupt for the run-of-the-mill Democrat. And the Republicans are… 🫣
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@grumble209 @benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn For the most part, the “Founding Fathers” agreed with you too. Unfortunately, they just ignored how political parties arise and built the perfect Duverger’s Law structure. One way to sidestep Duverger’s Law is proportional representation(which is built on parties). Some form of preference or instant run-off voting <i>might<\i> work. Or repeated elections…
@su_liam @grumble209 @benroyce @TCatInReality @Pepijn
To be fair to them, they were writing the constitution more than a century before Duverger was born. What's our excuse?
I think the US sucks at reforming its constitution because its ppl have been persuaded that it's weird or wrong to be into politics. Now that politics is becoming literally and violently fatal to even quite privileged people in the US, I'm optimistic that this blasé attitude will change.
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@benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn It's easy to agree when the ballot has good candidates that just happen to be Democrats. But I think we'll end up disagreeing over voting for shitty Democrats vs shitty Republicans.
Personally, I'm getting really tired of taste-testing the shit from both candidates to pick the one that's microscopically less shitty.
But let's think happy thoughts and pray that the DNC won't ever again run two shitty presidential candidates without a primary like 2024.
@grumble209 @benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn The fact that “shitty Democrats”generally comes down to stay-the-course, “don’t change nothing,” while the best Republicans are “let’s take down everything good,” but draw the line at “burn the Constitution,” and actual Republican candidates are, “Burn It All: we have an edifice of shit to build!”
Such a hard choice. -
@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn
no argument
as long as you vote
harris sucked
and what is this MAGA fascism we're seeing? the same?!
if you don't vote, and en masse with all the other inflexible dreamers you therefore get worse, what is the fucking point?
better
or
worse
*all you ever fucking get in this world*
and when you choose better, you ITERATE to even better next time
THAT is how you improve the world
sitting out until perfect magically appears is impotent insanity
@benroyce @grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn Choose the lesser evil until you can primary something good in. If you can’t even win a primary, what do you think is gonna happen in the general?
If you’re incredibly lucky, you lose and get the lesser evil. If not, you lose and eat shit. -
I'm an inventor of Tiered Democratic Governance. In the TDG:
1) there are no political parties
2) voting is based on good character & capacity for governance,
3) a culture of consultative decision making, and
4) an advisory board as its main check-and-balance.The 15-minute essay is here:
https://tiereddemocraticgovernance.org/blog_details.php?blog_cat_id=30&id=12
dave that's awesome but:
*how* do you implement it
and in that answer is everything i am talking about
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@TCatInReality @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn
people who don't #vote love the "lesser evil" quote by #HannahArendt
the problem:
the quote is from her 1964 essay “Personal Responsibility Under Dictatorship”
she is describing life under #fascism, where people have no real choice
it has nothing to do with choice in #democracy
nonvoters are misusing her quote
if Hannah were commenting on #USA #elections today, she would say "fuck! vote, you entitled assholes!"
(she would say it nicer than that)
@benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn The key is to not forget, and keep working to make things better.
I mean, that’s what she’s saying… -
@benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn The key is to not forget, and keep working to make things better.
I mean, that’s what she’s saying…@su_liam @TCatInReality @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn
right
and notice how the entitled twist it to justify their complacency by not voting
maddening
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that's funny because the "i'm not voting" validation performances are the gleeful ego masturbation in question here
the most important thing for the entitled nonvoter is their self-regard. it isn't making a difference
if somehow their demands before they show up and vote are met they still won't vote. they will find some other reason not to vote
because *that* is the point for them: their high holy purity self-regard song and dance
you don't see how toxic nonvoters are
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@su_liam @TCatInReality @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn
right
and notice how the entitled twist it to justify their complacency by not voting
maddening
@benroyce @su_liam @TCatInReality @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn I just saw the video of the ICE agent shooting a mother of three at point blank range. I think that's a pretty good way to put it to people: if you'd shown up to vote for Harris, this woman in Minneapolis would be alive with her kids today. How about that for a difference between the candidates.
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that's funny because the "i'm not voting" validation performances are the gleeful ego masturbation in question here
the most important thing for the entitled nonvoter is their self-regard. it isn't making a difference
if somehow their demands before they show up and vote are met they still won't vote. they will find some other reason not to vote
because *that* is the point for them: their high holy purity self-regard song and dance
you don't see how toxic nonvoters are
@benroyce @theothersimo @Pepijn I am growing more and more angry at nonvoters and other both-sides-ing people. They’re a big part of why things have gotten so bad.
I’m still here on Mastodon because I believe in the potential of this platform, but we have bad actors here just like all the other platforms. That’s a strike against it.
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@benroyce @theothersimo @Pepijn I am growing more and more angry at nonvoters and other both-sides-ing people. They’re a big part of why things have gotten so bad.
I’m still here on Mastodon because I believe in the potential of this platform, but we have bad actors here just like all the other platforms. That’s a strike against it.
@mister_shade02X2 @theothersimo @Pepijn
you could be like me. i pick at this infuriating scab of mindless cynicism and toxic idealism entitled do-nothing nonvoters and never fucking shut up about it until they all block me, so i never see their comments
but i know they are there
hopefully i serve as a counterbalance of reason and sanity in a sea of useless whiners
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The earliest stages would require a retiree in-post or taxation to get started - the initial representatives are full-time positions. Someone or thing would have to pay them. Also, because they have no legal authority, such representatives have little power unless they have a budget.
How do you avoid the early tier system becoming a subscription club? Or is this something you want it to become?
Many good concerns.
The TDG has similarities with the Soviet system. But the Soviets had one political party, which required an adherance to certain ideology---and eventually worship of its leader. That leader rigged elections to keep him in power. The TDG will cast aside those with power accumulation instincts.
Most of the TDG representatives would be volunteers, maybe a small "per meeting" pay. They would have regular jobs.
1/2
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The earliest stages would require a retiree in-post or taxation to get started - the initial representatives are full-time positions. Someone or thing would have to pay them. Also, because they have no legal authority, such representatives have little power unless they have a budget.
How do you avoid the early tier system becoming a subscription club? Or is this something you want it to become?
The first members would be the first TDG builders. But the goal of each TDG would be to eventually have all neighbors voting.
Initially, the TDG will be mostly about its own self-governance, while learning the skills for TDG goverance. In the early stages, the TDG does not have the skills to handle societal issues. That will come later.
The TDG is about building a new political culture: deliberately and consciously.
