While we do #Denmark #Danmark #USA #Greenland #Arctic drama, don't forget the #Inuit, the people who live there

@davevolek @benroyce @Pepijn

I think we can afford more optimism. Inserting real democrats has been done via primaries, against the wishes of the Dem party and their bankrollers.

Without voting in the primaries like it's the last good thing you ever get to do, I agree, the electorate will deliver another "burn it all down" vote in due course. Assuming they get to keep voting.

@eswag @benroyce @Pepijn

We can be optimistic. But we should be realistic. The new Democrats might be sidelined. Or they might to co-opted into the neoliberal agenda. There is a risk in assuming the Democratic Party is the only way to save the USA.

And we know very little about these overly ambitious people. They might create a wonderful image that they care about the common people, but very few of us understand their true motives.

Building a new democracy is hedging our bet.

@davevolek @benroyce @Pepijn

If you see a better option, I'm all ears.

I'm describing something that has been done, it's not speculation. It's certain to work if it is done on a big enough scale and we don't get wiped out by a catastrophe.

@benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @Pepijn

The trick is to remember that you voted for evil, and ask "why was I offered two flavours of shit sandwich?". In the US, the answer to that is, " because you didn't show up to the primaries".

@benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @Pepijn

The trick is to remember that you voted for evil, and ask "why was I offered two flavours of shit sandwich?". In the US, the answer to that is, " because you didn't show up to the primaries".

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

no argument

as long as you vote

harris sucked

and what is this MAGA fascism we're seeing? the same?!

if you don't vote, and en masse with all the other inflexible dreamers you therefore get worse, what is the fucking point?

better

or

worse

*all you ever fucking get in this world*

and when you choose better, you ITERATE to even better next time

THAT is how you improve the world

sitting out until perfect magically appears is impotent insanity

@benroyce
Is the eye chart better with A or B?
Click
A or B?
Click
A or B?
A or B?
Click
A or B?
Click

Ok, now let's look at you current prescription, and the new one.
Amazing eh?

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

@eswag @benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @Pepijn

Also the two shit sandwiches were basically a burger where someone wiped their ass with the lettuce and one where someone replaced the patty with a turd and you're not asked "which one would you rather eat now, if you say neither you get none" but "which one should we force everyone to eat daily for the next 4 years, there is no none"

@elasticsoul @Pepijn

"Too little too late"

Do you want us to solve the problem?

Then you are for us showing up and voting yes?

If you're only referring to nonvoters, I agree. But then I say to such fools: "definitely show up this time then"

Otherwise what? Nobody show up and things get 10x worse?

@eswag @benroyce @Pepijn

I'm an inventor of Tiered Democratic Governance. In the TDG:
1) there are no political parties
2) voting is based on good character & capacity for governance,
3) a culture of consultative decision making, and
4) an advisory board as its main check-and-balance.

The 15-minute essay is here:

https://tiereddemocraticgovernance.org/blog_details.php?blog_cat_id=30&id=12

@davevolek @benroyce @Pepijn

Thanks, that's a nice proposal. As you point out, any national-scale entity is likely significantly changed from your thoughts as written. I'd add that there's no reason to stop there, and that there could be a supranational tier. I don't know a lot about Soviet history, but it does sound like the many smaller & the "supreme" soviet in that union .

I don't see it solving the problems of the US in time to save the US. Primary'ing the Dems can show results fast.

@davevolek @benroyce @Pepijn

Also, cultures change rapidly and uncontrollably. Collegiate and cooperative assemblies can sour into acrimonious rows. I'm not saying tiered governance is not worth trying, I am saying watch out.

@eswag @benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @Pepijn

Also the two shit sandwiches were basically a burger where someone wiped their ass with the lettuce and one where someone replaced the patty with a turd and you're not asked "which one would you rather eat now, if you say neither you get none" but "which one should we force everyone to eat daily for the next 4 years, there is no none"

@gbargoud @eswag @TCatInReality @grumble209 @Pepijn

accurate but for uh various reasons i'm not going to boost this particular analogy

@eswag @benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @Pepijn

Also the two shit sandwiches were basically a burger where someone wiped their ass with the lettuce and one where someone replaced the patty with a turd and you're not asked "which one would you rather eat now, if you say neither you get none" but "which one should we force everyone to eat daily for the next 4 years, there is no none"

@benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn I respectfully disagree.

As far as I can tell, parties are the storefronts where big money donors go shopping to buy corrupt politicians.

I will not support a political party. I will support the good candidates that I trust. People - with ideas - not parties.

There's nothing about political parties in my Constitution, and that's good enough for me.

We may have to disagree about this.

@benroyce @Pepijn

The US also has primaries that don't get the attention they deserve. The Democrats are an appalling neoliberal far-right party, in the main, and the US's choice of Trump as an act of desperation is understandable from the POV of the status quo being intolerable.

The Wolf PAC's introduction of AOC, Rashida Tlaib etc. is what should be happening wholesale.

Without this, the Dems are a holding pattern before the next nosedive.

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

but we don't disagree

i agree with you 100%

you say you'll support good candidates

great

me too

so when i say "take over the democratic party" what am i really saying?

getting good candidates forward

that the vehicle is a party is merely a rational tactic, it isn't the destruction of all that is good in the world

and if the candidates are good enough, and we get ranked choice voting from them, we can start talking about killing political parties

@grumble209 @benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn For the most part, the “Founding Fathers” agreed with you too. Unfortunately, they just ignored how political parties arise and built the perfect Duverger’s Law structure. One way to sidestep Duverger’s Law is proportional representation(which is built on parties). Some form of preference or instant run-off voting <i>might<\i> work. Or repeated elections…

@benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn It's easy to agree when the ballot has good candidates that just happen to be Democrats. But I think we'll end up disagreeing over voting for shitty Democrats vs shitty Republicans.

Personally, I'm getting really tired of taste-testing the shit from both candidates to pick the one that's microscopically less shitty.

But let's think happy thoughts and pray that the DNC won't ever again run two shitty presidential candidates without a primary like 2024.