While we do #Denmark #Danmark #USA #Greenland #Arctic drama, don't forget the #Inuit, the people who live there

@n1xnx @benroyce @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn

Yes, and the only way to shift a party to "less evil" and then "good" is to get engaged in it.

No one will ever change the Democratic party by refusing to support it.

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

Well that would make sense if you lived on the moon

But you live in the USA

So you falsely believe you can afford yourself nonparticipation because the consequences don't effect you? They effect you

@benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn Weird that you believe that "not voting for a sociopath from the DNC or GOP" is the same as "non-participating". Especially when we're having this discussion on Mastodon, far far away from the mainstream social platforms because neither of us support those places. We're both participating in social media, right?

I will always vote if there's a candidate I can support. But I won't support sociopaths - there's too much at stake to vote for a mildly sociopathic candidate if there are alternatives. That's a simple rule, and I'm honestly surprised that it's considered spicy, even on Mastodon.

@SeanPLynch @TCatInReality @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn

If the "genocide joe" line is from Likud troll farm (it could be from another troll farm but the point is it's manipulation) then people not voting and thereby helping to elect Trump, as Netanyahu wanted, are therefore dutifully serving Netanyahu by not voting

That's the real value of these nonvoters, and they don't see what manipulated fools they are

@TCatInReality @benroyce @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn
Full agreement.

However, my Democratic party support and engagement are directed toward those forces trying to reform the party; contributing to the DSCC and DLC PACs just props up the existing, failed leadership structure, so they can whistle.

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

You're using the word "sociopath" like it means "poopiehead"

And you're avoiding the point

If there is an election that doesn't effect you, but will negatively effect someone else, you won't vote and that negatively effected group can go to hell

That's entitlement

You won't act because how you feel about yourself is more important than real world effects

That's the sum total of your precious "principles": self-serving self-regard

@benroyce

I think there just wasting your time - and getting a boost from all your responses.

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

You're using the word "sociopath" like it means "poopiehead"

And you're avoiding the point

If there is an election that doesn't effect you, but will negatively effect someone else, you won't vote and that negatively effected group can go to hell

That's entitlement

You won't act because how you feel about yourself is more important than real world effects

That's the sum total of your precious "principles": self-serving self-regard

@benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn

A sane voting system would resolve the misgivings about voting (e.g, ranked voting).

Most of my life I had not voted in presidential elections and thought much like the quote you refer to. I said I'd vote when I wanted to vote *for* someone, not against another.

DJT changed all that - I'll vote against pure evil any day.

But still, I'd be far more motivated to vote if I could vote my conscious (3rd party) without throwing my vote away.

@jmcclure @benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn the whole throw away vote is insane concept. A third party is very necessary in a bipartisan prone system. Keeps them both in check. Imagine another party aside from the dems keeping Donald in check and also keeping dems in check. Now imagine how fast a no confidence vote could throw him right out on his ass on the slightest misstep.

@benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn You can draw your line where ever you want to draw it.

I'll continue to vote, but not for candidates on the wrong side of my line. I have other options - so do you. My life is too short to waste trying to unfuck the DNC without having billionaires of dollars to spread around.

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

"I have other options"

what other options?

you vote and you matter or you don't and you don't

what other options are there?

@benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn My Washington state 2024 ballot had 10 candidates for US president. How many did yours have?

https://www.sos.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-09/Voters%20Pamphlet%202024%20-%20Edition%2021%20-%20Pend%20Orielle.pdf

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

do you really need me to explain to you the value of a third party vote in an FPTP voting system?

are you trolling?

if you vote third party, you might as well vote for trump

this is your great principles? not understanding your own voting system and bumbling into helping fascism?

@benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn I understand that the DNC and the GOP have so gerrymandered the states that voting outside of those two camps is unlikely to win. I understand the Electoral College predates political parties, and has been abused by partisans since its inception. We've had 235 years to unfuck this, but apparently we've always had more important things to do. God knows no other nation uses such an archaic system like we do.

Maybe we'll change it after Trump dies. But the DNC has shown no appetite for meaningful change. I guess we'll see.

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

so 3rd party only serves as a spoiler in FPTP

perot gave us clinton

nader gave us bush2

ranked choice is creeping in to the country, which will give us viable 3rd party

the GOP in 2024 made a hardline stance against it so the democrats remain the only path forward. many corporatist dems oppose it, but some support it: it's how we got mamdani in NYC

so we show up in the primaries and support dem candidates that support RCV

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

"Maybe we'll change it after Trump dies"

we won't ever change it, with your attitude

you need to fucking show up and act tactically with your vote

it's the only way

but apparently you have the entitlement to sit around and deliver uninformed cynicism on the topic

must be nice

@benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn I'm happy to help!

We just need a Dem candidate who supports RCV and isn't a sociopath.

Which probably means we're fucked, but lets be optimistic!

@eswag @benroyce @Pepijn

"the Dems are a holding pattern before the next nosedive."

So wisely said. The Democratic Party has structural defects that cannot be overcome. If there are elections next November, at best we can only expect another repeat of the previous administration.

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

agreed, with one caveat:

the worst dog shit democrat is still not fascism happy MAGA

so even if the democrat is the most spineless chuck schumer shitbag, you act tactically, rather than sitting things out and watching us go to fascism

it's not a fucking romance

it's tactics in a game, to hold the line if not proceed to better, so you at least can go for better tomorrow, rather than putting out fires for decades