While we do #Denmark #Danmark #USA #Greenland #Arctic drama, don't forget the #Inuit, the people who live there

@benroyce And I must say that I find it harder by the day to hear quotes from US citizens like "I didn't vote for him", "not my president", "not in my name" and especially: "50% of us disagree".

I get it. And I believe people when they say that. It also doesn't mean anything to me. That's internal.

What is external, to me as a citizen of another country, is that the USA -the country, with all the history, friendship & agreements we share- is actively threatening my country with invasion & war.

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

Under Harris or Trump Gazans suffer. But they suffer less under Harris. Nevermind climate change, Trans rights, women's rights, public health, etc

What is the value of letting things get worse on all measures, simply to say you didn't have anything to do with it?

Isn't it more important to matter for the better? You can't do that until you get perfect?

So then you will never matter in this world. Do you not see the folly of your terms for engagement?

@TCatInReality @benroyce @eswag @Pepijn I'm not waiting for a perfect candidate, I'm just rejecting awful candidates.

Harris was awful. Just because Harris wasn't *unusually *awful for the kind of tools that the DNC donors fund doesn't make her less awful.

If you can stomach voting for a worse candidate than me, fine, I guess. Maybe you can eat spicier food than me, too. Or see more rotting corpses before you puke. We're all different.

We all get to decide for ourselves how bad a candidate can be before we "nope" out. I'm not going to feel bad that you and I disagree.

@benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn At some point, a system gets too fucked up to heal itself. The usual analogy in engineering is trying to change the flat tire while the car keeps running down the road. To fix things, sometimes you have to make non-incremental changes.

Partisanship has crossed that line, IMHO. We've been voting - me included - for the lesser evil since forever and the situation is the worst it's been in 100 years.

It's obvious the GOP has reached the point of non-repairability. Maybe the DNC is salvageable, but I'll let you optimistic partisans to try to reform those corrupt fuckheads - since I don't write big checks, they care nothing for me, and I'm going to return the favor.

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

But you're serving your self-regard, not reality

It's going to be Harris or trump, regardless of what you do. To not choose, and allow it to become trump, and not caring that that reality is obviously worse, but you're ok with that as long as you feel good about yourself?

@n1xnx @TCatInReality @benroyce @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn

Mathematical logic

I can just subtract 5-5
I dont have to do
5-1
4-1
3-1
2-1
and 1-1

@TCatInReality @benroyce @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn

It seems mathematically and logically obvious that the only way to get from "evil" to "not evil" passes through "less evil," so the choice of voting for "less evil" over not voting is both obvious and essential.

(Of course, promoting and electing candidates who are better than the ones offered by the party establishments is also essential.)

@benroyce @phl

You are right. The people in #Greenland worries about the future consequences of that.

In 1968 an american B-52 crashed near Thule (now Pituffik) in Greenland and spread radioactive materials from the 4 hydrogen bombs it was carrying. Many of the people that cleaned up after that, got cancer.

And now the people of Greenland worries for a hostile takeover from US too

@n1xnx @TCatInReality @benroyce @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn

Mathematical logic

I can just subtract 5-5
I dont have to do
5-1
4-1
3-1
2-1
and 1-1

@n1xnx @benroyce @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn

Yes, and the only way to shift a party to "less evil" and then "good" is to get engaged in it.

No one will ever change the Democratic party by refusing to support it.

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

Well that would make sense if you lived on the moon

But you live in the USA

So you falsely believe you can afford yourself nonparticipation because the consequences don't effect you? They effect you

@benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn Weird that you believe that "not voting for a sociopath from the DNC or GOP" is the same as "non-participating". Especially when we're having this discussion on Mastodon, far far away from the mainstream social platforms because neither of us support those places. We're both participating in social media, right?

I will always vote if there's a candidate I can support. But I won't support sociopaths - there's too much at stake to vote for a mildly sociopathic candidate if there are alternatives. That's a simple rule, and I'm honestly surprised that it's considered spicy, even on Mastodon.

@SeanPLynch @TCatInReality @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn

If the "genocide joe" line is from Likud troll farm (it could be from another troll farm but the point is it's manipulation) then people not voting and thereby helping to elect Trump, as Netanyahu wanted, are therefore dutifully serving Netanyahu by not voting

That's the real value of these nonvoters, and they don't see what manipulated fools they are

@TCatInReality @benroyce @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn
Full agreement.

However, my Democratic party support and engagement are directed toward those forces trying to reform the party; contributing to the DSCC and DLC PACs just props up the existing, failed leadership structure, so they can whistle.

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

You're using the word "sociopath" like it means "poopiehead"

And you're avoiding the point

If there is an election that doesn't effect you, but will negatively effect someone else, you won't vote and that negatively effected group can go to hell

That's entitlement

You won't act because how you feel about yourself is more important than real world effects

That's the sum total of your precious "principles": self-serving self-regard

@benroyce

I think there just wasting your time - and getting a boost from all your responses.

@grumble209 @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn

You're using the word "sociopath" like it means "poopiehead"

And you're avoiding the point

If there is an election that doesn't effect you, but will negatively effect someone else, you won't vote and that negatively effected group can go to hell

That's entitlement

You won't act because how you feel about yourself is more important than real world effects

That's the sum total of your precious "principles": self-serving self-regard

@benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn

A sane voting system would resolve the misgivings about voting (e.g, ranked voting).

Most of my life I had not voted in presidential elections and thought much like the quote you refer to. I said I'd vote when I wanted to vote *for* someone, not against another.

DJT changed all that - I'll vote against pure evil any day.

But still, I'd be far more motivated to vote if I could vote my conscious (3rd party) without throwing my vote away.

@jmcclure @benroyce @TCatInReality @grumble209 @eswag @Pepijn the whole throw away vote is insane concept. A third party is very necessary in a bipartisan prone system. Keeps them both in check. Imagine another party aside from the dems keeping Donald in check and also keeping dems in check. Now imagine how fast a no confidence vote could throw him right out on his ass on the slightest misstep.

@benroyce @TCatInReality @eswag @Pepijn You can draw your line where ever you want to draw it.

I'll continue to vote, but not for candidates on the wrong side of my line. I have other options - so do you. My life is too short to waste trying to unfuck the DNC without having billionaires of dollars to spread around.