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  3. Some things are harder to teach than others.

Some things are harder to teach than others.

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  • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

    Some things are harder to teach than others. One of the most difficult things to explain is "how to start sewing without putting a knot at the end of the thread."

    Like many tasks that I stumble over when teaching I made the fatal mistake of thinking "this is easy"

    I think I need to draw diagrams?

    What makes it worse is it's not that important when you are sewing a book signature how you "knot the thread" since it will be covered in glue later.

    My students want an "Official Procedure"

    ericlawton@kolektiva.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
    ericlawton@kolektiva.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
    ericlawton@kolektiva.social
    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
    #38

    @futurebird

    Does it become "official" when coded in hardware?

    I still have the tin, but (k)not the machine, from my dad's automatic knotter.

    He was a textile mechanic and this was in common use in the spinning and weaving sheds.

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    • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

      @AnnaBaguenaude @va2lam @bucknam

      I made a diagram:

      https://sauropods.win/@futurebird/115950780276008456

      annabaguenaude@tenforward.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
      annabaguenaude@tenforward.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
      annabaguenaude@tenforward.social
      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
      #39

      @futurebird thank you, it's perfect! I'll try it soon. @va2lam @bucknam

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      • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

        @Anke @va2lam @bucknam

        OK I've tried to draw it.

        Do not overthink the details of these diagrams. Consider the difference between using a knot to hold the thread vs. using friction.

        Friction is often a better, more robust solution. There are many ways to start sewing. Just overlap your stitches, back-stitch a few times until you feel it will not slide out.

        david_chisnall@infosec.exchangeD This user is from outside of this forum
        david_chisnall@infosec.exchangeD This user is from outside of this forum
        david_chisnall@infosec.exchange
        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
        #40

        @futurebird @Anke @va2lam @bucknam

        When I was four, I learned both methods, but the second was much easier if I started with the first. The knot helped hold the thread in place for the first few stitches. When you are just learning, it’s very easy to accidentally pull the thread through when you go back, the knot stops that happening.

        futurebird@sauropods.winF 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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        • anke@social.scribblers.clubA anke@social.scribblers.club

          @futurebird @va2lam @bucknam
          My grandmother taught me how to weave in ends on the back of the work when doing embroidery, but no-one ever taught me to sew. Wishing I had known to ask now.

          mensrea@freeradical.zoneM This user is from outside of this forum
          mensrea@freeradical.zoneM This user is from outside of this forum
          mensrea@freeradical.zone
          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
          #41

          @Anke @futurebird @va2lam @bucknam nothing stopping you from starting now. sometime last year i started getting into fixing the fabric things around the house and it takes time but isn't very intimidating

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          • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

            @dahukanna

            I thought making a diagram was "overkill" but I can see that it's not.

            Lets see if this helps them to be more independent about this part of the project.

            dahukanna@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
            dahukanna@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
            dahukanna@mastodon.social
            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
            #42

            @futurebird

            It’s not just kids. I’ve seen grown adults, paid a salary to come up with solutions to problems, also asking,
            - “keep it simple and tell me the “one right answer”!
            - “Give me the answer and don’t make me work for it”.
            - “I don’t want to make an(y) effort. Give me the answer”.

            It is a kind of “cognitive abdication”, “don’t make me think” or learned/programmed helplessness.

            futurebird@sauropods.winF 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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            • david_chisnall@infosec.exchangeD david_chisnall@infosec.exchange

              @futurebird @Anke @va2lam @bucknam

              When I was four, I learned both methods, but the second was much easier if I started with the first. The knot helped hold the thread in place for the first few stitches. When you are just learning, it’s very easy to accidentally pull the thread through when you go back, the knot stops that happening.

              futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
              futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
              futurebird@sauropods.win
              schrieb zuletzt editiert von
              #43

              @david_chisnall @Anke @va2lam @bucknam

              This makes sense, though if that knot is taking a lot of tension because the person learning to sew is pulling too hard it's going to cause further problems. Learning to manage the tension is a big part of sewing. So the thread is taught... but not pulling on the fabric or paper much.

              It's one of the reasons I like sewing books with them. Too much tension will tear the paper. Instant feedback.

              ericlawton@kolektiva.socialE 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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              • dahukanna@mastodon.socialD dahukanna@mastodon.social

                @futurebird

                It’s not just kids. I’ve seen grown adults, paid a salary to come up with solutions to problems, also asking,
                - “keep it simple and tell me the “one right answer”!
                - “Give me the answer and don’t make me work for it”.
                - “I don’t want to make an(y) effort. Give me the answer”.

                It is a kind of “cognitive abdication”, “don’t make me think” or learned/programmed helplessness.

                futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
                futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
                futurebird@sauropods.win
                schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                #44

                @dahukanna

                I will help someone who is overwhelmed if we are just trying to get a task done. But when I'm teaching?

                Well I'm not teaching anything if students don't confront this.

                dahukanna@mastodon.socialD 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                  @Anke @va2lam @bucknam

                  OK I've tried to draw it.

                  Do not overthink the details of these diagrams. Consider the difference between using a knot to hold the thread vs. using friction.

                  Friction is often a better, more robust solution. There are many ways to start sewing. Just overlap your stitches, back-stitch a few times until you feel it will not slide out.

                  the_roamer@mastodonapp.ukT This user is from outside of this forum
                  the_roamer@mastodonapp.ukT This user is from outside of this forum
                  the_roamer@mastodonapp.uk
                  schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                  #45

                  @futurebird @Anke @va2lam @bucknam

                  So lovely.

                  Sewing is an alien art for me, I envy you. I won't start now, but I see this as a wonderful Taoist case study!

                  Let the material decide how it wants to be treated. The knot is my external will, clumsily imposed on the thread; the friction loop is the inner nature of the thread, gracefully doing what it does, skillfully aligned with my needs.

                  I love the drawing too!

                  #Tao #Zhuangzi

                  futurebird@sauropods.winF 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                  • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                    @david_chisnall @Anke @va2lam @bucknam

                    This makes sense, though if that knot is taking a lot of tension because the person learning to sew is pulling too hard it's going to cause further problems. Learning to manage the tension is a big part of sewing. So the thread is taught... but not pulling on the fabric or paper much.

                    It's one of the reasons I like sewing books with them. Too much tension will tear the paper. Instant feedback.

                    ericlawton@kolektiva.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                    ericlawton@kolektiva.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                    ericlawton@kolektiva.social
                    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                    #46

                    @futurebird

                    My grannie taught me sewing, knitting and embroidery.

                    Yet here I am, learning more, 63 years later.

                    @david_chisnall @Anke @va2lam @bucknam

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                    • anke@social.scribblers.clubA anke@social.scribblers.club

                      @futurebird @va2lam @bucknam
                      My grandmother taught me how to weave in ends on the back of the work when doing embroidery, but no-one ever taught me to sew. Wishing I had known to ask now.

                      sollat@masto.aiS This user is from outside of this forum
                      sollat@masto.aiS This user is from outside of this forum
                      sollat@masto.ai
                      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                      #47

                      @Anke @futurebird @va2lam @bucknam
                      I started with embroidery when I was very young, too. Would sew everything in backstitch. Very secure.

                      Actually, I still backstitch most of the time.

                      sbourne@mastodon.socialS 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                      • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                        @dahukanna

                        I will help someone who is overwhelmed if we are just trying to get a task done. But when I'm teaching?

                        Well I'm not teaching anything if students don't confront this.

                        dahukanna@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                        dahukanna@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                        dahukanna@mastodon.social
                        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                        #48

                        @futurebird I agree that independent learning and being prepared to make some effort navigating through trial and error but people behave like making any cognitive effort I.e. learning “by trail and error” is “an affront” to their personage.

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                        • the_roamer@mastodonapp.ukT the_roamer@mastodonapp.uk

                          @futurebird @Anke @va2lam @bucknam

                          So lovely.

                          Sewing is an alien art for me, I envy you. I won't start now, but I see this as a wonderful Taoist case study!

                          Let the material decide how it wants to be treated. The knot is my external will, clumsily imposed on the thread; the friction loop is the inner nature of the thread, gracefully doing what it does, skillfully aligned with my needs.

                          I love the drawing too!

                          #Tao #Zhuangzi

                          futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
                          futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
                          futurebird@sauropods.win
                          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                          #49

                          @the_roamer @Anke @va2lam @bucknam

                          Sewing is weaving with just one thread at a time and a tiny little shuttle.

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                          • sollat@masto.aiS sollat@masto.ai

                            @Anke @futurebird @va2lam @bucknam
                            I started with embroidery when I was very young, too. Would sew everything in backstitch. Very secure.

                            Actually, I still backstitch most of the time.

                            sbourne@mastodon.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                            sbourne@mastodon.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                            sbourne@mastodon.social
                            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                            #50

                            @sollat @anke @futurebird @va2lam @bucknam Every stitch is a "knot"!

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                            • angelacarstensen@mastodon.onlineA angelacarstensen@mastodon.online shared this topic
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