This is how The American Civil War 2.0 begins.
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@virtuous_sloth here are the two options:
A: Wait it out, let 10 months pass, defeat Trump decisively in the midterms, and only if Trump does not respect the result, pick up arms. Few people die in 2026.
B: Pick up arms, give Trump an excuse for sending in the tanks. Thousands die in 2026.
Please elaborate why I am wrong when claiming that A is better than B.
@randahl This has happened before and Americans do not side with the government when they use arms against the people, even when the people are armed.
You are imagining what might happen in a country outside the US.
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@ApostateEnglishman this is certainly difficult to quantify, because any killing is one too many.
But would you not agree, that in all likelyhood, fewer will die if the American people wait it out and defeat Trump in the midterms, as compared to picking up arms and Trump sending in the tanks?
Remember, Black Panthers killed police officers and civilians back in the day. If that starts happening now, you are on the direct path to civil war and thousands will die.
@randahl I find it difficult to believe the regime would be terrorising its own citizens if the midterms were going to make any difference! No, it needs an excuse to rig, disrupt, delay or even cancel those elections. And we know Trump has been obsessing over invoking the Insurrection Act for the past decade.
Anyway, regardless of what you think of the Black Panthers or "open carrying" semi-automatic weapons, you can't expect communities to not defend themselves against ICE violence. They will.
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@ApostateEnglishman this is certainly difficult to quantify, because any killing is one too many.
But would you not agree, that in all likelyhood, fewer will die if the American people wait it out and defeat Trump in the midterms, as compared to picking up arms and Trump sending in the tanks?
Remember, Black Panthers killed police officers and civilians back in the day. If that starts happening now, you are on the direct path to civil war and thousands will die.
@randahl I think that your (and others’) assumption that the Regime will ever allow free and fair midterms to happen is hopium. If they lose, every single one of them is going to have to face consequences for their actions. I despair at the escalation, but given the craven spinelessness of the Congress to stop this (7 Democrats just voted to keep funding ICE), it is unsurprising that the people who are being harmed and killed no longer believe that their so-called “democracy” is going to save them - it never has. @ApostateEnglishman
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This is how The American Civil War 2.0 begins.
While it is expected that people would react this way, sadly this is EXACTLY what Stephen Miller and Trump wants. All the regime is waiting for is for the first ICE officer to be gunned down by guys like these, so they can invoke the insurrection act, send in the tanks, and end democracy.
This is NOT the way.
Defeat Trump decisively in the midterms and throw him in jail. That has a real chance of working — zero violence involved.
@randahl randahl you know this cannot be avoided. stop prolonging the inevitable or its fucking ww3. you know this
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@virtuous_sloth here are the two options:
A: Wait it out, let 10 months pass, defeat Trump decisively in the midterms, and only if Trump does not respect the result, pick up arms. Few people die in 2026.
B: Pick up arms, give Trump an excuse for sending in the tanks. Thousands die in 2026.
Please elaborate why I am wrong when claiming that A is better than B.
The midterms are on Nov 3rd, that's 9½ months from now. By ICE's (current!) quota of 3.000 arrests /d, that's 855.000 people getting arrested until then. 855.000 people who then cannot vote against trump.
Black Panther is making sure, less people get arrested.
In any case: You think trump would let himself be held back by Congress?
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N n8zug@social.tchncs.de shared this topic
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@randahl I think that your (and others’) assumption that the Regime will ever allow free and fair midterms to happen is hopium. If they lose, every single one of them is going to have to face consequences for their actions. I despair at the escalation, but given the craven spinelessness of the Congress to stop this (7 Democrats just voted to keep funding ICE), it is unsurprising that the people who are being harmed and killed no longer believe that their so-called “democracy” is going to save them - it never has. @ApostateEnglishman
@Lynnd @randahl @ApostateEnglishman
I'm kind-of with Randahl on this. Although I think if it looks like they'll lose, the Republicans will engineer an excuse to cancel the elections, I'm also inclined to think non-violent protest and economic pressure represent the better strategy until that cancellation, because I think that political outrage - along with the intervening economic deterioration - will give clarity to many people and unite the opposition. It might even split the Republicans.
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WTF @ChrisHolladay? Could someone talk these guys down before they flush democracy down the drain?
(Video above)
@randahl @ChrisHolladay It probably won't be these guys. Trump's regime will send in agent provocateurs to start the violence.
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@randahl @ChrisHolladay It probably won't be these guys. Trump's regime will send in agent provocateurs to start the violence.
@MichaelMcWilliams @randahl @ChrisHolladay and all you can do is prepare for that
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@Lynnd @randahl @ApostateEnglishman
I'm kind-of with Randahl on this. Although I think if it looks like they'll lose, the Republicans will engineer an excuse to cancel the elections, I'm also inclined to think non-violent protest and economic pressure represent the better strategy until that cancellation, because I think that political outrage - along with the intervening economic deterioration - will give clarity to many people and unite the opposition. It might even split the Republicans.
@GeofCox @Lynnd @randahl I'll agree insofar as there are conversations that are probably best left till *after* the midterms were scheduled to occur - and perhaps this is one of them.
Personally, I'm unable to follow the trajectory of current events to a place where those elections are allowed to proceed fairly, if at all. Just can't see that happening.
I also don't think it reasonable to expect communities to not defend themselves against daily assault. Sooner or later someone will retaliate.
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@virtuous_sloth here are the two options:
A: Wait it out, let 10 months pass, defeat Trump decisively in the midterms, and only if Trump does not respect the result, pick up arms. Few people die in 2026.
B: Pick up arms, give Trump an excuse for sending in the tanks. Thousands die in 2026.
Please elaborate why I am wrong when claiming that A is better than B.
@randahl
Option
Stay legal, but let everyone know that you're very much armed and prepared to defend yourself. That seems to be the Black Panther strategy, and it could help in case of B, and make A more likely (because they can't just send in amateur ICE goons to disrupt the midterms).
@virtuous_sloth -
This is how The American Civil War 2.0 begins.
While it is expected that people would react this way, sadly this is EXACTLY what Stephen Miller and Trump wants. All the regime is waiting for is for the first ICE officer to be gunned down by guys like these, so they can invoke the insurrection act, send in the tanks, and end democracy.
This is NOT the way.
Defeat Trump decisively in the midterms and throw him in jail. That has a real chance of working — zero violence involved.
@randahl
Which "disband ICE and throw Trump in jail" party has a chance in hell of winning the the midterms?The democrats are at most going to slow him down slightly, but if they were going to get rid of either Trump or ICE, they would have done so before his second term. They will always be the party of the status quo.
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This is how The American Civil War 2.0 begins.
While it is expected that people would react this way, sadly this is EXACTLY what Stephen Miller and Trump wants. All the regime is waiting for is for the first ICE officer to be gunned down by guys like these, so they can invoke the insurrection act, send in the tanks, and end democracy.
This is NOT the way.
Defeat Trump decisively in the midterms and throw him in jail. That has a real chance of working — zero violence involved.
@randahl
You're totally right!
There's a better way, the Portland way
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This is how The American Civil War 2.0 begins.
While it is expected that people would react this way, sadly this is EXACTLY what Stephen Miller and Trump wants. All the regime is waiting for is for the first ICE officer to be gunned down by guys like these, so they can invoke the insurrection act, send in the tanks, and end democracy.
This is NOT the way.
Defeat Trump decisively in the midterms and throw him in jail. That has a real chance of working — zero violence involved.
@randahl ICE is spending $100 million USD for influence campaigns this year, partly for recruiting, but I'm sure operations to manage public perceptions and even to encourage violence from the left are a part of it.
Everything ICE does is an attempt to provoke violence, but I'd rather be the matador than the bull...
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This is how The American Civil War 2.0 begins.
While it is expected that people would react this way, sadly this is EXACTLY what Stephen Miller and Trump wants. All the regime is waiting for is for the first ICE officer to be gunned down by guys like these, so they can invoke the insurrection act, send in the tanks, and end democracy.
This is NOT the way.
Defeat Trump decisively in the midterms and throw him in jail. That has a real chance of working — zero violence involved.
@randahl
Every time I am amazed by your positivity, but I don't share it.I guess there certainly won't be mid-term elections as you have in mind.
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This is how The American Civil War 2.0 begins.
While it is expected that people would react this way, sadly this is EXACTLY what Stephen Miller and Trump wants. All the regime is waiting for is for the first ICE officer to be gunned down by guys like these, so they can invoke the insurrection act, send in the tanks, and end democracy.
This is NOT the way.
Defeat Trump decisively in the midterms and throw him in jail. That has a real chance of working — zero violence involved.
@randahl
A hard disagree from me. It’s the only thing they respect.To the audience:
I speak from a place of formally white ignorance. If you are white, the first thing you should do is make sure you know what the Black Panther party is. You need to know what racist powers did to discredit them. You need to know that America basically doesn’t have gun laws except in places the Black Panther party showed up.I’m not saying your opinion is not valid, I’m saying it’s not qualified until you know what white racism did.
I bet you 100% that Renee Nicole Good’s family wish this guy was there.
I’m sorry, but if you think MAGA is waiting for an excuse to escalate then you are thinking they haven’t escalated. This is why Ukraine was asked to not hit Russia.
The Black Panther party acts within the law. If you don’t want him to have a gun, pass gun laws. If you don’t want the need for him, dismantle ICE. If you don’t want the Black Panthers feeding the school kids and giving them pencils, feed the kids at school and give them pencils.
I’m probably an outlier but if a Black man stands up and says he’s willing to stand up and defend others within the law (because ICE is acting illegally, self-defence is legal), I need to back him, because he is already backing me.
That man is a hero to me.
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This is how The American Civil War 2.0 begins.
While it is expected that people would react this way, sadly this is EXACTLY what Stephen Miller and Trump wants. All the regime is waiting for is for the first ICE officer to be gunned down by guys like these, so they can invoke the insurrection act, send in the tanks, and end democracy.
This is NOT the way.
Defeat Trump decisively in the midterms and throw him in jail. That has a real chance of working — zero violence involved.
@randahl
"Amendment IIA well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/amendments-i-x-the-bill-of-rights/
Isn't this what the second amendment for? Not saying it's a good idea, but it's kind of how it is.
"Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
But it doesn't look like the us government cares about their constitution anyway...
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@GeofCox @Lynnd @randahl I'll agree insofar as there are conversations that are probably best left till *after* the midterms were scheduled to occur - and perhaps this is one of them.
Personally, I'm unable to follow the trajectory of current events to a place where those elections are allowed to proceed fairly, if at all. Just can't see that happening.
I also don't think it reasonable to expect communities to not defend themselves against daily assault. Sooner or later someone will retaliate.
@ApostateEnglishman thank you for taking a nuanced stand.
@GeofCox @Lynnd -
@randahl @helava US democracy is dead. The midterms, like you think those retards in charge will let the election vhange anything or even take place ?
If Americans rioted like mad, and I mean rioted, in the very beginning, if they haven't been brainwashed for 50 years to be submissive, this whole situation won't even be here.
It is time to fuck shit up or you will never have anything to do ever anymore.
@joel_falcou let us say, the Trump regime attempts to stop the midterms. Which path gives the most legitimacy to the rebellion?
The path where people starts killing federal employees, and then Trump sends in the tanks? Or the path where people try to vote, Trump crushes the elections, and the people THEN storms DC to remove Trump?
@helava -
This is how The American Civil War 2.0 begins.
While it is expected that people would react this way, sadly this is EXACTLY what Stephen Miller and Trump wants. All the regime is waiting for is for the first ICE officer to be gunned down by guys like these, so they can invoke the insurrection act, send in the tanks, and end democracy.
This is NOT the way.
Defeat Trump decisively in the midterms and throw him in jail. That has a real chance of working — zero violence involved.
@randahl In the end, it is slowly becoming a World problem, and I hate to think how it turned out the last Time!
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@randahl This has happened before and Americans do not side with the government when they use arms against the people, even when the people are armed.
You are imagining what might happen in a country outside the US.
@virtuous_sloth @randahl Some of the American Military have proven that they are willing to obey illegal orders, there is always that!
