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  3. It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

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  • u_urban@social.tchncs.deU u_urban@social.tchncs.de

    @neil

    Wo ist das Problem, dann muss man halt seinen Beitrag mit der Einstellung "Only Follower" veröffentlichen!
    Ist halt schade um die Möglichkeit seine Gedanken in größerer Runde auszutauschen und auf neue interessante Menschen zu treffen!
    Vielleicht hilft dann auch der Umzug auf eine andere, kleinere (?) Instanz.
    Oft lohnt sich auch die Kommunikation auf die Metaebene zu heben, konnte so schon manches Missverständnis klären!

    neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN This user is from outside of this forum
    neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN This user is from outside of this forum
    neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
    #39

    @u_urban

    I suspect that the online translation I used is poor, as it makes it sound like you are trivialising the impact of these replies on women, and suggesting that the onus is on them (moving instance, or engaging differently) to solve the problem.

    isofruit@mastodon.socialI u_urban@social.tchncs.deU 2 Antworten Letzte Antwort
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    • neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

      @tknarr It's all good 🙂

      tknarr@mstdn.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
      tknarr@mstdn.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
      tknarr@mstdn.social
      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
      #40

      @neil I'm still looking at what's involved in creating subscribeable blocklists. The basic hook into the block functionality on the server is obvious enough, but the list itself involves learning everything about the ActivityPub protocol and the federation and syndication models. Making it useful involves having categorization and user ratings while preventing abuse of them too. Straightforward in concept, terminally hirsute in implementation.

      hunterz@mastodon.sdf.orgH mawhrin@circumstances.runM M 3 Antworten Letzte Antwort
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      • neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

        @VSRT

        Welcome!

        The term "fediverse" is just slang for the network(s) of federated services/servers, of which your server (wehavecookies.social) is one.

        A "fedi" user, here, is someone who uses one or more fediverse services.

        vsrt@wehavecookies.socialV This user is from outside of this forum
        vsrt@wehavecookies.socialV This user is from outside of this forum
        vsrt@wehavecookies.social
        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
        #41

        @neil oh I understand now, thanks for taking the time to explain it to me :))

        1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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        • alex@social.alexhyett.comA alex@social.alexhyett.com

          @neil that would be perfect. An “only allow replies from people you follow” option would help so much.

          mlanger@mastodon.worldM This user is from outside of this forum
          mlanger@mastodon.worldM This user is from outside of this forum
          mlanger@mastodon.world
          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
          #42

          @alex @neil Yes and no. If someone has fears, then yes. But the way I find new people to follow is when they interact with my posts. Having an option like that turned on would prevent me from doing that.

          So I guess my answer really is YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

          I have no qualms about blocking assholes, and I really don't care what they say behind my back. Unlike them, I have a life and it isn't centered on social media.🤷🏼‍♀️

          neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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          • neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

            It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

            Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

            shewolfnm@theforkiverse.comS This user is from outside of this forum
            shewolfnm@theforkiverse.comS This user is from outside of this forum
            shewolfnm@theforkiverse.com
            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
            #43

            @neil
            I've already been called the N word and I've only been here a week or so. It's surprising how nasty people get when online. 😕

            neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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            • mlanger@mastodon.worldM mlanger@mastodon.world

              @alex @neil Yes and no. If someone has fears, then yes. But the way I find new people to follow is when they interact with my posts. Having an option like that turned on would prevent me from doing that.

              So I guess my answer really is YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

              I have no qualms about blocking assholes, and I really don't care what they say behind my back. Unlike them, I have a life and it isn't centered on social media.🤷🏼‍♀️

              neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN This user is from outside of this forum
              neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN This user is from outside of this forum
              neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
              schrieb zuletzt editiert von
              #44

              @mlanger @alex

              > YES, as long as it's an OPTION.

              Indeed, I don't think I've seen anyone suggesting that it should be mandatory!

              S 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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              • shewolfnm@theforkiverse.comS shewolfnm@theforkiverse.com

                @neil
                I've already been called the N word and I've only been here a week or so. It's surprising how nasty people get when online. 😕

                neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN This user is from outside of this forum
                neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN This user is from outside of this forum
                neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
                schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                #45

                @Shewolfnm I'm so sorry - that is just awful 😞

                1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                • neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

                  @evdelen As you say, that is post visibility, not reply control.

                  mlanger@mastodon.worldM This user is from outside of this forum
                  mlanger@mastodon.worldM This user is from outside of this forum
                  mlanger@mastodon.world
                  schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                  #46

                  @neil @evdelen Yeah, but if they can't see it, they can't reply to it. I think it's a viable option for posts you don't want just anyone to see and reply to. I use it occasionally when I'm posting stuff of a more personal nature that isn't exactly private.

                  neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                  • tknarr@mstdn.socialT tknarr@mstdn.social

                    @neil I'm still looking at what's involved in creating subscribeable blocklists. The basic hook into the block functionality on the server is obvious enough, but the list itself involves learning everything about the ActivityPub protocol and the federation and syndication models. Making it useful involves having categorization and user ratings while preventing abuse of them too. Straightforward in concept, terminally hirsute in implementation.

                    hunterz@mastodon.sdf.orgH This user is from outside of this forum
                    hunterz@mastodon.sdf.orgH This user is from outside of this forum
                    hunterz@mastodon.sdf.org
                    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                    #47

                    @tknarr @neil this idea is not new to the fediverse. Multiple major efforts have occurred and then faded away after being hijacked for personal vendettas.

                    The problem is it's a social issue more than a technological one.

                    tknarr@mstdn.socialT 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                    • mlanger@mastodon.worldM mlanger@mastodon.world

                      @neil @evdelen Yeah, but if they can't see it, they can't reply to it. I think it's a viable option for posts you don't want just anyone to see and reply to. I use it occasionally when I'm posting stuff of a more personal nature that isn't exactly private.

                      neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN This user is from outside of this forum
                      neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN This user is from outside of this forum
                      neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
                      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                      #48

                      @mlanger @evdelen

                      Great!

                      It is certainly *a* control here.

                      1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                      • hunterz@mastodon.sdf.orgH hunterz@mastodon.sdf.org

                        @tknarr @neil this idea is not new to the fediverse. Multiple major efforts have occurred and then faded away after being hijacked for personal vendettas.

                        The problem is it's a social issue more than a technological one.

                        tknarr@mstdn.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                        tknarr@mstdn.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                        tknarr@mstdn.social
                        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                        #49

                        @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                        Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                        tknarr@mstdn.socialT hunterz@mastodon.sdf.orgH 2 Antworten Letzte Antwort
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                        • tknarr@mstdn.socialT tknarr@mstdn.social

                          @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                          Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                          tknarr@mstdn.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                          tknarr@mstdn.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                          tknarr@mstdn.social
                          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                          #50

                          @HunterZ @neil Email RBLs and browser ad blockers are vulnerable to the same abuses. If we adopted your policy, both would be abandoned. Nobody's stupid enough to propose that, though.

                          ... OK, Google is stupid enough to propose doing away with ad blockers, but look how well that idea was received.

                          1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                          • tknarr@mstdn.socialT tknarr@mstdn.social

                            @HunterZ @neil Subscribeable blocklists are a technical issue, and I can state a number of good use cases for them.

                            Abuse of a blocklist by it's creator (misleading subscribers about criteria, doing a bait-and-switch after getting a subscriber base) is completely separate, and yes _that's_ a social issue. Hence my concern for categorization and ratings, and ways to prevent those from being abused to give a list a false reputation.

                            hunterz@mastodon.sdf.orgH This user is from outside of this forum
                            hunterz@mastodon.sdf.orgH This user is from outside of this forum
                            hunterz@mastodon.sdf.org
                            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                            #51

                            @tknarr @neil I'm saying that the implementation of them becomes overwhelmingly a social issue. It's already been tried and failed multiple times at the instance level because of abuse. All it takes is collusion among a group of bad actors to pump up ratings etc.

                            tknarr@mstdn.socialT 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                            • hunterz@mastodon.sdf.orgH hunterz@mastodon.sdf.org

                              @tknarr @neil I'm saying that the implementation of them becomes overwhelmingly a social issue. It's already been tried and failed multiple times at the instance level because of abuse. All it takes is collusion among a group of bad actors to pump up ratings etc.

                              tknarr@mstdn.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                              tknarr@mstdn.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                              tknarr@mstdn.social
                              schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                              #52

                              @HunterZ @neil Did I say anything about it being at the instance level? No, I did not.

                              The use cases all involve decisions by individual users about which blocklists to subscribe to. It certainly _could_ be used by an instance admin, but we already give them that power by allowing instance-level blocking in the first place. The social issue there isn't subscribeable blocklilsts, it's having an instance admin you can't trust not to block people inappropriately by whatever mechanism.

                              gotofritz@hachyderm.ioG 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                              • neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

                                It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                                Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                                yuvalne@433.worldY This user is from outside of this forum
                                yuvalne@433.worldY This user is from outside of this forum
                                yuvalne@433.world
                                schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                #53

                                @neil remember when Mastodon asked for changes to be made to the interaction policies FEP specifically so they can opt out of implementing reply and boost control?
                                i remember.

                                1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                                • tknarr@mstdn.socialT tknarr@mstdn.social

                                  @neil I'm still looking at what's involved in creating subscribeable blocklists. The basic hook into the block functionality on the server is obvious enough, but the list itself involves learning everything about the ActivityPub protocol and the federation and syndication models. Making it useful involves having categorization and user ratings while preventing abuse of them too. Straightforward in concept, terminally hirsute in implementation.

                                  mawhrin@circumstances.runM This user is from outside of this forum
                                  mawhrin@circumstances.runM This user is from outside of this forum
                                  mawhrin@circumstances.run
                                  schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                  #54

                                  @tknarr @neil btw. that visibility setting is doing something very non-obvious, namely it's always interpreted per-message, which makes the actual thread audience completely unpredictable.

                                  1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                                  • electricfusionq@muenchen.socialE electricfusionq@muenchen.social

                                    @neil Can you in RL control who`s replying to words you said?

                                    mawhrin@circumstances.runM This user is from outside of this forum
                                    mawhrin@circumstances.runM This user is from outside of this forum
                                    mawhrin@circumstances.run
                                    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                    #55

                                    @electricfusionQ @neil this is real life too, mon.

                                    1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                                    • neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

                                      It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                                      Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                                      krazov@mstdn.socialK This user is from outside of this forum
                                      krazov@mstdn.socialK This user is from outside of this forum
                                      krazov@mstdn.social
                                      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                      #56

                                      @neil @mawhrin I saw it on Bluesky, and it seems to do the job.

                                      1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                                      • neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

                                        It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                                        Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                                        ykantrachelread@social.treehouse.systemsY This user is from outside of this forum
                                        ykantrachelread@social.treehouse.systemsY This user is from outside of this forum
                                        ykantrachelread@social.treehouse.systems
                                        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                        #57

                                        @neil ultimately, fedi's culture of men constantly centering themselves, reply-guying, being weird and condescending and creepy to women and fems, and so forth, is a social-cultural problem. and while better tools can help to shield us from the worst of it, you can't solve a social problem with technical solutions. in other words, it's the culture of misogyny that needs to change, or nothing will fundamentally change.

                                        1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                                        • neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

                                          It always makes me sad when another fedi user - and, in my experience, it is always a woman - says that they feel unsafe posting here, because of replies they get.

                                          Control over who can reply to a toot would be amazing, as a way to improve this without them needing to mute or block post-harm.

                                          project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
                                          project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
                                          project1enigma@chaos.social
                                          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                          #58

                                          @neil Women. Black people. Jews...

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