Historians will, I predict, regard the current situation as the American Civil War II.
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#TIL that @mastoreaderio exists and how to use it
@coffee2Di4 @mastoreaderio I'm glad! Ain't it useful?
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@cmthiede I keep running scenarios through my head that make ranked choice voting terribly unclear.
Let's say we have five candidates. C1 and C2 get 33% first round votes. C3, C4, and C5 all get 11%. Now in Round 2, C4 got 40%, but C3-5 were eliminated, yet round 1 and 2 give C4 a majority. But some of those votes come from C1 and C2.
I don't see how it works. I'm consistently confused by the logic.
@RegGuy @msbellows @heidilifeldman @mastoreaderio I don't know that anyone has settled on the logic beyond the name sounding catchier than explaining a runoff election midsummer to crank things up a notch. If it gets rid of the Nader Effect, I don't care what it's called. I'd be happy if both sides had a serious discussion about it out loud so everyone can hear.
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@cmthiede I keep running scenarios through my head that make ranked choice voting terribly unclear.
Let's say we have five candidates. C1 and C2 get 33% first round votes. C3, C4, and C5 all get 11%. Now in Round 2, C4 got 40%, but C3-5 were eliminated, yet round 1 and 2 give C4 a majority. But some of those votes come from C1 and C2.
I don't see how it works. I'm consistently confused by the logic.
@RegGuy I'm interested in RCV.
But I don't think it's one weird trick to save democracy... -
Democracy was never meant to be done by election. Athenians knew it would captured by oligarchs. It was meant to be by sortition.
I modified this idea & how it could be structured & why. What I envision is completely different to what we have now. It’s a different democratic model, using a version of sortition. What I envision is practical & develops interdependence, understanding, experience, skills, while solving real problems.
https://mastodon.social/@JoBlakely/110531598480099232@JoBlakely @heidilifeldman I just received a notice for jury duty. We accept the judgement of somewhat randomly chosen candidates for a jury so I can see sortition as a more democratic method than elections.
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@cmthiede I keep running scenarios through my head that make ranked choice voting terribly unclear.
Let's say we have five candidates. C1 and C2 get 33% first round votes. C3, C4, and C5 all get 11%. Now in Round 2, C4 got 40%, but C3-5 were eliminated, yet round 1 and 2 give C4 a majority. But some of those votes come from C1 and C2.
I don't see how it works. I'm consistently confused by the logic.
@RegGuy @cmthiede @msbellows @heidilifeldman @mastoreaderio Just think of it one vote at a time. Your vote says "I prefer C1, but if she gets eliminated I'll vote for C2 instead."
Your vote says exactly what you would do if there were a series of run-off elections.
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@cmthiede I keep running scenarios through my head that make ranked choice voting terribly unclear.
Let's say we have five candidates. C1 and C2 get 33% first round votes. C3, C4, and C5 all get 11%. Now in Round 2, C4 got 40%, but C3-5 were eliminated, yet round 1 and 2 give C4 a majority. But some of those votes come from C1 and C2.
I don't see how it works. I'm consistently confused by the logic.
@RegGuy @cmthiede @msbellows @heidilifeldman @mastoreaderio I don't understand this: "...yet round 1 and 2 give C4 a majority." It sounds like you want to put the two rounds together, but they are separate.
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@cmthiede I keep running scenarios through my head that make ranked choice voting terribly unclear.
Let's say we have five candidates. C1 and C2 get 33% first round votes. C3, C4, and C5 all get 11%. Now in Round 2, C4 got 40%, but C3-5 were eliminated, yet round 1 and 2 give C4 a majority. But some of those votes come from C1 and C2.
I don't see how it works. I'm consistently confused by the logic.
@RegGuy @cmthiede @msbellows @heidilifeldman @mastoreaderio only one candidate gets eliminated at a time. So in your example assuming c3 c4 c5 weren't exactly the same let's say 11.3% 11.4% 11.5% so c3 gets eliminated. His 11.3% is allocated however the voters wanted. Some to each of c1, c2, c4 and c5. Then repeat for new lowest ranked.
Not sure what would happen in a draw where two lowest candidates have exactly same number. I'm sure it's covered in the Australian system. Possibly a coin toss. But very unlikely to have exactly the same number of votes.
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Historians will, I predict, regard the current situation as the American Civil War II. Certainly we are in a civil war, instigated by the federal government, when it began sending unnecessary and militarized forces into American cities. (See pinned post.) 1/
These are the people who bought an election for MAGA...
They are responsible for what Trump's done to America.
We need to know the identity of every donor.
1. SpaceX $288,723,409
2. Adelson Clinic/Miriam Adelson $146,881,700
3. Uline Inc $146,027,201
4. Citadel LLC $108,669,316
5. Susquehanna International Group $101,468,362
6. Andreessen Horowitz $89,036,553
7. Empower Parents PAC $82,500,000
8. Coinbase $79,008,020
9. Elliott Management $68,846,510 -
@RegGuy @cmthiede @msbellows @heidilifeldman @mastoreaderio only one candidate gets eliminated at a time. So in your example assuming c3 c4 c5 weren't exactly the same let's say 11.3% 11.4% 11.5% so c3 gets eliminated. His 11.3% is allocated however the voters wanted. Some to each of c1, c2, c4 and c5. Then repeat for new lowest ranked.
Not sure what would happen in a draw where two lowest candidates have exactly same number. I'm sure it's covered in the Australian system. Possibly a coin toss. But very unlikely to have exactly the same number of votes.
@RegGuy @cmthiede @msbellows @heidilifeldman @mastoreaderio https://www.aec.gov.au/Voting/counting/complex-count.htm
Still looking for the tie break but a good explanation if the Australian system. -
@heidilifeldman I wonder if there is a more precise term than civil war, where one or more groups of citizens are at war with each other.
This situation, when the government is waging war with one group of citizens (supposedly) on behalf of another, may not have a commonly used term to accurately describe it.
I think it's an important distinction, because Americans are not fighting Americans, even if some in government would love to change that. We shouldn't help them normalize the idea.
@dcdeejay @heidilifeldman I think it's called revolution. But, the party pushing the Civil War angle is the same one that already used Revolution for pitching AI, to sell the new Industrial Revolution. They've been solving problems that nobody asked to be solved, for so long, using everyone's money but their own, they never thought anyone would stop to notice. The whole world was gifted a moment of reflection thanks to COVID. Who ever thought people would want to stick their face right back in the oven?
¯\_(ツ_)/¯
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/american-voices/
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These are the people who bought an election for MAGA...
They are responsible for what Trump's done to America.
We need to know the identity of every donor.
1. SpaceX $288,723,409
2. Adelson Clinic/Miriam Adelson $146,881,700
3. Uline Inc $146,027,201
4. Citadel LLC $108,669,316
5. Susquehanna International Group $101,468,362
6. Andreessen Horowitz $89,036,553
7. Empower Parents PAC $82,500,000
8. Coinbase $79,008,020
9. Elliott Management $68,846,5102/
No more faceless, nameless billionaires buying the destruction of democracy & the planet.
10. Securing American Greatness $67,558,284
11. Senate Leadership Fund $67,445,300
12. Club for Growth $59,846,594
13. Koch Inc $49,092,685
14. Blackstone Group $48,609,890
15. Stand Together Chamber of Commerce $44,801,948
16. Restoration PAC $41,168,363
17. Crownquest Operating $35,752,512
18. Bigelow Aerospace $34,991,590
19. Building America's Future $33,670,000
20. Stephens Inc $27,343,518 -
2/
No more faceless, nameless billionaires buying the destruction of democracy & the planet.
10. Securing American Greatness $67,558,284
11. Senate Leadership Fund $67,445,300
12. Club for Growth $59,846,594
13. Koch Inc $49,092,685
14. Blackstone Group $48,609,890
15. Stand Together Chamber of Commerce $44,801,948
16. Restoration PAC $41,168,363
17. Crownquest Operating $35,752,512
18. Bigelow Aerospace $34,991,590
19. Building America's Future $33,670,000
20. Stephens Inc $27,343,5183/
Funders of fascism.
21. British American Tobacco $26,175,838
22. American Prosperity Alliance $22,549,000
23. Manzanita Management Group $22,159,143
24. America First Action/America First Policies $21,724,798
25. Mountaire Corp $21,375,080
26. Reyes Holdings $21,192,607
27. Energy Transfer LP $19,321,695
28. Hendricks Holding Co $19,306,538https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/top-organizations
1. Elon Musk $291,482,587
2. Timothy Mellon $197,047,200
3. Miriam Adelson $148,304,900
4. Richard Uihlein $143,498,936 -
3/
Funders of fascism.
21. British American Tobacco $26,175,838
22. American Prosperity Alliance $22,549,000
23. Manzanita Management Group $22,159,143
24. America First Action/America First Policies $21,724,798
25. Mountaire Corp $21,375,080
26. Reyes Holdings $21,192,607
27. Energy Transfer LP $19,321,695
28. Hendricks Holding Co $19,306,538https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/top-organizations
1. Elon Musk $291,482,587
2. Timothy Mellon $197,047,200
3. Miriam Adelson $148,304,900
4. Richard Uihlein $143,498,9364/
The people who bought themselves a civil war & a WW3 to avoid taxation
5. Ken Griffin $108,402,284
6. Jeff Yass $101,128,680
7. Paul E. Singer $66,800,800
8. Marc Andreessen $42,365,113
9. Stephen Schwarzman $40,202,039
10. Timothy Dunn $35,780,200
11. Rob Bigelow $34,991,500
12. Diane Hendricks $33,165,417
13. JJ Ricketts $32,273,650
14. Shirley W. Ryan $32,198,116
15. Warren A. Stephens $25,895,650
16. Laura Perlmutter $25,344,890
17. Vince & Linda McMahon $23,961,659 -
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