TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in.
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@jwildeboer @acidicX that’s the bare travel distance, need to figure out how to load them on both sides as well… plus margin, ofc. I was just saying that I’d need to have much more margin than planned, then.
@jwildeboer @acidicX it’ll need more planning than just the thing stands there and can be used and occasionally the bother of having to tank petroleum is needed, which was already bothersome
at least it’ll stink less. -
@dynom 20 years is a weirdly special metric, considering that EVs have not been generally available 20 years ago and the progress has been impressive in the past 10 years. But hey, petrolheads gonna petrol, I guess
@renard@equestria.social@jwildeboer @dynom I'm no petrolhead, but you do you with the insults, sure
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@jwildeboer @dynom I'm no petrolhead, but you do you with the insults, sure
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@jwildeboer @dalias I wonder how much it varies between companies - like if traditional manufacturers are still at least trying to build to last (within the limits of designs these days), while more techbro-derived manufacturers lean harder into planned obsolescence to try to impose short upgrade cycles..
@pstewart @jwildeboer My impression is that traditional US manufacturers like Ford have fully embraced the private equity philosophy (pivot to enshittification milking the brand name until it's dry) but Honda and Toyota and the likes might (?) still be making quality stuff. In any case I'd opt for a 20-30 yo car over any of them.
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@jwildeboer @JYeo18 I never said anything like that.
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This also means that buying a used EV is perfectly fine. If the used car is „younger“ than 5-7 years, the battery will be fine for years to come.
„How long do EV batteries last?
The average lifespan of EV batteries will be around 13 years or more based on observed degradation rates.“
My 6 year old EV still has 100% battery SOH. It’s almost always charged from a plain wall socket and we live in a temperate climate.
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This also means that buying a used EV is perfectly fine. If the used car is „younger“ than 5-7 years, the battery will be fine for years to come.
„How long do EV batteries last?
The average lifespan of EV batteries will be around 13 years or more based on observed degradation rates.“
The amount of truly weird arguments to defend NOT being interested in switching to an EV in the replies is stunning.
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@jwildeboer @JYeo18 I never said anything like that.
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@IronManIV @jwildeboer Unfortunately, a lot of the cost of a car is the frame and body, and techniques which have dramatically lowered the cost of entry have also dramatically increased the cost of repair. Unibody construction is simpler and cheaper (and lower-rattle, etc.) than body-on-chassis-on-frame, but if it bends in a collision, good luck straightening it out and restoring it to spec strength.
@bob_zim @jwildeboer Yes, I would agree current designs are not designed for longevity. I am very concerned about all of the gadget grade electronics. I expect the nightmare of things like the Apple Carplay compatibility nightmare to get worse. The tendency has been to load up all cars with gadgets.
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The amount of truly weird arguments to defend NOT being interested in switching to an EV in the replies is stunning.
@jwildeboer I love Rory Sutherlands take on this —> https://www.youtube.com/shorts/OTOKws45kCo
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The amount of truly weird arguments to defend NOT being interested in switching to an EV in the replies is stunning.
@jwildeboer Well done on the replies to some of the characters on this thread. Your patience and tolerance for ... is commendable.
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TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer Sadly my first EV was a lemon: 2016 Kia Soul EV that was down to 55% of its rated capacity in less than 4 years (note this is not based on reported range, but measurements of power draw to charge from 0% to 100% with an ANSI C12.20 certified energy meter). Kia refused to honor the warranty on the vehicle so I had to offload it at a loss since I couldn't even complete my commute without stopping to charge.
Now of course there's a new problem: I want an EV *without* the constant-on surveillance and data capture. The only option I see for that is doing my own conversion of an ICE vehicle (which is getting easier and easier these days, fortunately).
It would be so nice to have a single cab full bed EV pickup out here...
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The amount of truly weird arguments to defend NOT being interested in switching to an EV in the replies is stunning.
@jwildeboer (most) people don’t handle change well and cars seem to be an especially emotional subject
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The amount of truly weird arguments to defend NOT being interested in switching to an EV in the replies is stunning.
@jwildeboer My biggest issue with EVs is that most of the journeys they replace could easily be short walks, bike rides, or public transportation trips. EVs are definitely better than ICE vehicles though.
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The amount of truly weird arguments to defend NOT being interested in switching to an EV in the replies is stunning.
Paraphrasing:
- Electric cars will self-ignite after 10 years, that's just a fact.
- Electric cars that have been on the market for less than 10 years have not proven to be as reliable as my 35+ years old car so it's a no
- Something, something surveillance that seems to only exist in EVs
- Do they support Apple CarPlay?
- All electric cars run on 18650 cells from just three manufacturers and they all lose 50% of their capacity in max 5 years.Definitely stunning.
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Paraphrasing:
- Electric cars will self-ignite after 10 years, that's just a fact.
- Electric cars that have been on the market for less than 10 years have not proven to be as reliable as my 35+ years old car so it's a no
- Something, something surveillance that seems to only exist in EVs
- Do they support Apple CarPlay?
- All electric cars run on 18650 cells from just three manufacturers and they all lose 50% of their capacity in max 5 years.Definitely stunning.
(I love my EV).
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@jwildeboer yes. Data doesn't go that far.
@renard @jwildeboer I've seen predictions that replacing the main battery in an EV will be cheaper than most ICE repairs. Batteries are getting cheap very quickly
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The amount of truly weird arguments to defend NOT being interested in switching to an EV in the replies is stunning.
@jwildeboer let me say thank you for giving me some solid numbers for the upcoming change in our garage.
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Paraphrasing:
- Electric cars will self-ignite after 10 years, that's just a fact.
- Electric cars that have been on the market for less than 10 years have not proven to be as reliable as my 35+ years old car so it's a no
- Something, something surveillance that seems to only exist in EVs
- Do they support Apple CarPlay?
- All electric cars run on 18650 cells from just three manufacturers and they all lose 50% of their capacity in max 5 years.Definitely stunning.
@jwildeboer For me it's simply the price. I started looking for a used car to bridge the next couple of years until we can go car-free (kids old enough, parents no longer in need of visits) and there are basically no offers and no appropriate car models below 15000€. Compared to the market for used gasoline cars this is just sad.
I would love to drive an electric car so much but 17000€ for a 7 year old BMW i3 is mind-boggling (you get 4 years old and much larger cars for 12K) -
@madduci From the article: "Our current dataset lacked sufficient “cold-only” samples – vehicles in consistently cold climates without a warm season – to isolate the impact of extreme cold on long-term degradation." But let's just say that Norway is at almost 90% EV for new car sales and experience there shows the (expected) range reduction in cold weather, but no faster battery degradation, as far as I can see.
@jwildeboer @madduci it's even better, Norway is at >= 97% of new sales being BEVs these days
