Imagine a stranger spreads lies about you.
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Yes.
But also with the recognition that the system working this way is ripe for abuse and pile ons. It's easy for a bad actor to use the system to target someone they simply don't like or actively want to harm.
So mods, admins, and even individuals need to use their own wits and sense and not take a demand at face value. "Doing your own research" is fraught with pitfalls if its own, so it's not that simple, either.
There ARE accounts that simply shouldn't be hosted anywhere. There are also demands for a fediblock that are nothing but targeted abuse.
We have to deal with both and be wise to both.
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Imagine a stranger spreads lies about you. They tell people you're doing horrible depraved crimes. Would you just block them?
What happens when other people don't block them? When other people believe the lies and share them?
What if this turns into real life abuse and violence against you and your family?
This is what vulnerable groups face from bigots. Bigoted accounts need to be shut down, servers which refuse to remove bigots should be defederated.
"Just block them" doesn't work.
"Just block them" has always been code for "I support this but don't want to say it explicitly."
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@klefstadmyr@vivaldi.net @FediTips@social.growyourown.services what if they just say 'nah' though
Then report that 'nah' to your admin.
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Imagine a stranger spreads lies about you. They tell people you're doing horrible depraved crimes. Would you just block them?
What happens when other people don't block them? When other people believe the lies and share them?
What if this turns into real life abuse and violence against you and your family?
This is what vulnerable groups face from bigots. Bigoted accounts need to be shut down, servers which refuse to remove bigots should be defederated.
"Just block them" doesn't work.
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Calling out antisemitism too "loudly" actually gave *me* a "strike" by the moderation of a previous instance I was. (And someone else got worse on the same instance, I preempted that by moving out quickly.)
Was quite a bit DARVO. "Harassment" my ass, but antisemitism itself was apparently no big deal.
@project1enigma @tauon @FediTips
This happened to me as well
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Recommendation is that server admins refuse to host bigots, and report bigotry when they see it on other servers.
If a server admin knowingly refuses to remove a bigot despite clear reports, admins might consider defederating that server.
There are also readymade blocklists that can help with pre-blocking the worst servers, more info for server admins at https://fedi.tips/importing-ready-made-server-blocklists-on-mastodon/
@FediTips @e_t_wright @roknrol
It doesnt help. I already know based on why I was struck that the mods are antisemites.
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@FediTips @e_t_wright @roknrol
It doesnt help. I already know based on why I was struck that the mods are antisemites.
@FediTips @e_t_wright @roknrol
This place is full of people who want me dead and I know it because they oppose democrats.
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Recommendation is that server admins refuse to host bigots, and report bigotry when they see it on other servers.
If a server admin knowingly refuses to remove a bigot despite clear reports, admins might consider defederating that server.
There are also readymade blocklists that can help with pre-blocking the worst servers, more info for server admins at https://fedi.tips/importing-ready-made-server-blocklists-on-mastodon/
@FediTips @e_t_wright
What if it’s on Nostr, but I can’t defederate from Nostr. -
@FediTips yeah but if the people wouldn't simply believe the "liar" so easily, everything would be fine...
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Bluesky as in 'the place that welcomes transphobes [Jesse Singal comes to mind, see: the 'waffles' controversy where the CEO refuses to ban him] and ICE"? That Bluesky? You sure about that?
We have to make our own spaces.
We can't trust corpo social media to have our best interests in mind.@alex
Bluesky as in the next oppressive and corrupt police state (because they apparently have centralized moderation).It wasnt a sincere suggestion but an explanation of why oppressing your fellow people does not work but the conditions need to change. As in bluesky is what happens when you try to solve an issue with more instead of less oppression.
As I said, fanon wrote about this. Alexandra Kollontai did too in "the social basis of the woman question"
@FediTips -
@circuitsunfish
It was not a sincere suggestion but a way to explain what meeting oppression with oppression leads to. If one wants to oppress others more to have less oppression themselves, they get corrupt policestate aka bluesky.That is why the answer is joining an org and changing the system. Join a socialist org near you today.
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@FediTips @e_t_wright @roknrol
This place is full of people who want me dead and I know it because they oppose democrats.
@Energetic_Nova @FediTips @e_t_wright @roknrol I am left, and have only ever voted for Democrats, but your statement is bigotry. Casting aside anyone who doesn’t agree with Democrats is the definition of bigotry to a T. @FediTips your heart is in the right place, but I fear your solution only leads to more problems and misuse for political warfare.
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@imbl @FediTips This was one of the flaws I was mentioning @FediTips There is nothing from stopping those people from using the system you have envisioned against you and abusing it. Especially as you say these people are able to gather large followings and get them to believe lies. So nothing is stopping them from lying and using the controls you want.
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As far as I know I haven't suggested any specific blocklists, I've suggested people go to Oliphant's list of blocklists and see which of those lists is a fit for their server.
Are you saying Oliphant is problematic or have I misunderstood?
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@imbl @FediTips This was one of the flaws I was mentioning @FediTips There is nothing from stopping those people from using the system you have envisioned against you and abusing it. Especially as you say these people are able to gather large followings and get them to believe lies. So nothing is stopping them from lying and using the controls you want.
There ARE things stopping people from abusing the system, for example many of the blocklists have voting systems to prevent an individual adding stuff maliciously.
None of these methods are perfect, but it would be even worse to have no blocklist at all.
That's why I suggest admins look at the blocklists and their methodologies and choose the list(s) they feel are best and most reliable.
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@FediTips @e_t_wright
What if it’s on Nostr, but I can’t defederate from Nostr.AFAIK Nostr isn't part of the Fediverse. If there's a bridge, you can defederate the bridge.
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Then report that 'nah' to your admin.
Yup, if a server hosts a bigot and knows what they're up to but refuses to remove their account, the next step is to tell your own admin about this so they can consider defederating the rogue server.
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@klefstadmyr@vivaldi.net @FediTips@social.growyourown.services what if they just say 'nah' though
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@Cappyjax @FediTips so you basically are questioning the ability of critical thinking of the majority of your people? If so, trying to solve the initial problem with a maybe technical approach, would be fighting the symptoms instead of the root cause. Because the problem is then, that people more or less solely decide based on trust. Why they do that must be researched like maybe lack of education, the design of social media, cultural background, etc.
