Territorial integrity and sovereignty are fundamental principles of international law.

@joschi64 @HennaVirkkunen

I was pointing to the fact that international law is irrelevant if you now expect the USA to respect it.

This is now a case of what we believe in. Is it comfort for us or the right of self-determination for others?

That's a hard and expensive question to answer. I hope we stand by that and elements within GOP recognise it too and reign in their President. I don't want to think about the alternative.

@szbalint @HennaVirkkunen

Without the US there is no NATO. Kill switches on US supplied weapons means we have little defence. European countries are totally exposed.

Closedown by US owned clouds would make government systems dysfunctional. Mass unemployment as a result of tariffs empowers the fascist right.

Major or terminal?

@energisch_ Sorry, not sure whether that was quite on topic - what exactly did you intend to reply to and.or suggest?

@HennaVirkkunen Welcome on the fediverse! I hope you convince more of your colleague to make the move and leave X (or only repost there). Democracy needs sovereignty.

@joschi64 @stuart @HennaVirkkunen What democratic values? Those that drown children in the Mediterranean? Or the ones mandating Chat Control so no private digital communications in Europe? Those ones?

@mojala @joschi64 @HennaVirkkunen

I agree and all of us could add a 100 more democratic failures without breaking sweat.

But, imho, Democracy had one redeeming feature. The ability to change government without a civil war - or worse. Also to correct, in time, the worst faults.

'Had' because it failed in Germany in 1933 and we have to wait and see if it failed America in 2020. The fault is if you elect fascists you get fascism.

Democratic Fascism is an oxymoron.

@stuart @HennaVirkkunen

Absolutely.. Everything will work only if all the players play the same game with the same rules.

And clearly that is not the case.

@energisch_ @stuart @joschi64 @HennaVirkkunen Maybe Trump will unify the EU, just like RFK Jr. has made vaccines more popular in the USA than before.

@rrb @energisch_ @joschi64 @HennaVirkkunen

Rejoining the EU will be a long and tortuous trail for the UK no matter it's what people want. More iinteresting, easier and faster is to expand the EEA (countries sharing the EU single market but not members). Drop the first E so we could include Canada, Australia and anybody else who thinks this the best way to protect themselves.

The EU would have to concede some control of the SM but it return we get something with clout so we all benefit.

@stuart @energisch_ @joschi64 @HennaVirkkunen Frankly, I think the other NATO members should approach China about a defense agreement that includes putting a short leash on Putin.

Non-US NATO members put in about 60% of the funding. China is more reasonable and less aggressive than USA right now.

The new constellation would be more stable, could make a more reliable approach to enforcing international law, and would serve everyone better.

Also, it would teach the USA an important lesson. Note, I am a US citizen. Somebody has to stop the crazy orange baboon.

I think that just starting negotiations with China would wake up the USA

@rrb @energisch_ @joschi64 @HennaVirkkunen

I think it worth sitting it out with the USfor another three years. There are still people there who understand the benefits of allies.

Exerting restraint on this administration has to be done subtlety and is mitigating the lunacy as so many TACOs suggest. It's messy but we have to hope that it will pass with this administration.

No guarantees but we know China. It's lethal as a trusted partner as we found in Hong Kong. There would be no going back.

@stuart @energisch_ @joschi64 @HennaVirkkunen I wish that I had your level of optimism.

This is not a one off. Remember that the Nazis based their anti-Jewish laws on the laws in the Jim Crow South. I am afraid that the USA has a rotten core.

I am not a Pollyanna with regards to China, but I think the only way to make the USA wake up is for he rest of the World move on and leave us behind wallowing in our own filth.

@stuart @rrb @energisch_ @joschi64 @HennaVirkkunen

First of all Europe MUST disentangle itself from the dependencies on the US empire. Then we can always cooperate on a case to case basis.

Personally I have been in favor of dissolving NATO and having our own European army from the fall of the Berlin war. I found it common sense AND important to do. But the EU is a quagmire, it's a bunch of kittens all running in different directions.