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@Energetic_Nova @sotolf @AlSweigart
Billionaires and big tech lies constantly. I don't really know if they themselves believe in it, I don't think it's the case.
When you listen to them, like the Suno CEO, it's always about money, never about art. They're 100% a product of capitalism where money is the only value that matters.
@Energetic_Nova @sotolf @AlSweigart
I don't know enough about that stuff but my guess is modern writtings/videos/etc should exists?
@Energetic_Nova @sotolf @AlSweigart
Yes, I guess it's because they were definied by economists during the industrial revolution.
I think it still makes sense though since the idea is to turn labor (any kind) into value that would benefit all society.
I agree "workers" isn't a good term. It's rather "people who create value", and this value isn't just monetary/material of course (money doesn't even exist in the final stage which is communism).
@Energetic_Nova @sotolf @AlSweigart
It's more like socialist features 
I don't think anybody argues that social aids exists (especially in Europe where I live).
But to be a real socialist society, workers need to own the production.
Living of social aids that can disappear after any election (even without a change of system) is not socilism, being forced to work 8hrs/day just to eat and have a roof isn't socialism.
in Belgium, I feel we constantly have to fight for our social rights.
@Energetic_Nova @sotolf @AlSweigart
I really don't see non-working people as an issue when you see the amount of profits that got stolen by the ultra-richs every day.
Also, it requires to define what is participating in society. Staying at home doing art is participation, taking care of other people is participation, etc...
@Energetic_Nova @sotolf @AlSweigart
I personaly see stateless communism as a perfect idea that can't be reeached. Some kind of guideline but it doesn't matter much to me as it would take multiple lives to get there.
The socialism I'm defending is the step between capitalism and communism (which to me could as much be eternal as it looks like a nice world to live in).
Basically you still have a state to distribute the profits and you don't need to participate to get your share.
@Energetic_Nova @sotolf @AlSweigart
I may be misunderstanding what you're saying (english isn't my first language and I don't live in the US, also I'm kinda new to this^^) but I don't see why SSI would require a state?
To clarify some stuff, I'm speaking about socialism here, not comunism. Socialism is still a system with a state.
To my understanding it wouldn't really change your life even though your SSI could be higher (no rich parasites to puncture the profits).
I'd say it has the same limitation has anything else. It's one source of information that should be compared with others, even if that source is kinda trustworthy.
Everytime I debate about socialism with people they're like "yeah but you have no solution for this very specific point, so obviously it can't work"
And I'm like... capitalism has the same issue, only not for you because you're not poor, a poc, handicaped...
The classic is "who will work in the sewers". Yeah, remind me who's doing it right now, that's right, people that have no other choice.
It's like Palentir. You... you know you are the bad guys... okay.
@herrLorenz @tom @terminaltilt
Interesting.