Todd C. Miller has been maintaining the #sudo codebase for over 30 years.
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That's probably true. But the idea that a community can only exist as long as huge numbers of people are providing their labor for free is a huge problem. I think people need to get used to the idea of paying for open source software, we pay for everything else that we find useful and if Linux is worthwhile we should be willing to pay for this as well.
@rastilin @egoldblatt @pafurijaz I think we should absolutely encourage monetary contributions to open source, but I think how we communicate about it is important.
No one should be going into free software projects expecting to get paid for it, and the fact that people do get paid for it is the exception and not the rule. Likewise, if there's an expectation for the users to pay for software, and the software is being distributed for free, I'd argue the onus isn't on the users, but on the authors/distributors to monetize it correctly.
Imo FOSS as a business model isn't in the spirit of FOSS (vscodium, for example). Neither does software we've paid for guarantee any special privileges or increased trust in the authors. It just means we've paid for it.
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Todd C. Miller has been maintaining the #sudo codebase for over 30 years. This is exactly one of those cases where an entire critical infrastructure is held together by the work of a single volunteer who apparently can’t find anyone willing to sponsor him for some financial support. #opensource #linux #foss #GNU
@pafurijaz please exlain to us!
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That's probably true. But the idea that a community can only exist as long as huge numbers of people are providing their labor for free is a huge problem. I think people need to get used to the idea of paying for open source software, we pay for everything else that we find useful and if Linux is worthwhile we should be willing to pay for this as well.
@rastilin @pafurijaz I don't see a likelihood of users or corporations being willing to pay for open source. If payment changes hands, that's a contract. And I'm sure that everyone wants a contract that protects them from anything that might go wrong.
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@rastilin @egoldblatt @pafurijaz I think we should absolutely encourage monetary contributions to open source, but I think how we communicate about it is important.
No one should be going into free software projects expecting to get paid for it, and the fact that people do get paid for it is the exception and not the rule. Likewise, if there's an expectation for the users to pay for software, and the software is being distributed for free, I'd argue the onus isn't on the users, but on the authors/distributors to monetize it correctly.
Imo FOSS as a business model isn't in the spirit of FOSS (vscodium, for example). Neither does software we've paid for guarantee any special privileges or increased trust in the authors. It just means we've paid for it.
@crocodisle @rastilin @pafurijaz If there's an expectation of payment, then the software isn't free.
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Todd C. Miller has been maintaining the #sudo codebase for over 30 years. This is exactly one of those cases where an entire critical infrastructure is held together by the work of a single volunteer who apparently can’t find anyone willing to sponsor him for some financial support. #opensource #linux #foss #GNU
@pafurijaz Thanks for the reminder. I just sponsored the project via GitHub.
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Todd C. Miller has been maintaining the #sudo codebase for over 30 years. This is exactly one of those cases where an entire critical infrastructure is held together by the work of a single volunteer who apparently can’t find anyone willing to sponsor him for some financial support. #opensource #linux #foss #GNU
@pafurijaz su ftw
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@pafurijaz Half the point of #FOSS (or more than half, for a lot of people) is the "free as in beer" element. If they were willing to pay for things, they'd be in the Windows or Mac walled gardens. That's just the reality of the situation. Create a tool for everyone, and everyone will use it until they need to pay up.
@egoldblatt @pafurijaz it is "free as freedom" not free as free beer. You can have foss project that you need to pay for.
" Free software means that the users have the freedom to run, edit, contribute to, and share the software. Thus, free software is a matter of liberty, not price "
From : https://www.fsf.org/
So a FOSS software can still be a paid one
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Todd C. Miller has been maintaining the #sudo codebase for over 30 years. This is exactly one of those cases where an entire critical infrastructure is held together by the work of a single volunteer who apparently can’t find anyone willing to sponsor him for some financial support. #opensource #linux #foss #GNU
I think "father of time " (NTP) has a similar problem - the list could go on.
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Todd C. Miller has been maintaining the #sudo codebase for over 30 years. This is exactly one of those cases where an entire critical infrastructure is held together by the work of a single volunteer who apparently can’t find anyone willing to sponsor him for some financial support. #opensource #linux #foss #GNU
@pafurijaz But surely he can just "sudo sponsor my efforts" and all will be well? xkcd:149
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Todd C. Miller has been maintaining the #sudo codebase for over 30 years. This is exactly one of those cases where an entire critical infrastructure is held together by the work of a single volunteer who apparently can’t find anyone willing to sponsor him for some financial support. #opensource #linux #foss #GNU
@pafurijaz why didnt he use sudo to get funding?
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@pafurijaz please exlain to us!
@martinosacchi @pafurijaz “sudo” is short for “superuser do”. It is a widely used system administration tool that lets you run commands with “superuser” privileges, so you can change and access pretty much any part of a system. For security, your account needs to be on a list and you need to enter a password to use it. If left unmaintained, bugs won’t be fixed or necessary changes made. This could result in security holes allowing systems to be compromised.
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@crocodisle @rastilin @pafurijaz If there's an expectation of payment, then the software isn't free.
@egoldblatt @crocodisle @rastilin @pafurijaz
Whether or not a software is free (as in freedom) depends on the license. It has nothing to do with money. (And selling is even allowed under Free Software licenses.) Just because English has a hard time with words it doesn't mean that the meaning of "Free Software" changes. -
@rastilin @pafurijaz I don't see a likelihood of users or corporations being willing to pay for open source. If payment changes hands, that's a contract. And I'm sure that everyone wants a contract that protects them from anything that might go wrong.
@egoldblatt @rastilin @pafurijaz
Users and corporations are already paying for free software. It's just that the stack is just too large and they tend to only pay for end-products. (And not enough for those so that the depending projects get their fair share) Basically another case of "trickle down economy" not working and why we need more government based support for free software projects. -
@spacehobo @pafurijaz
You van install and use doas in Linux Debian.
It's great. I recommend it.
But, KDE Plasma depend to sudo, so at the end you have both.@lautreg @spacehobo @pafurijaz
A desktop environment depends on sudo? So it doesn't work for regular/unprivileged users? -
@spacehobo @lautreg @pafurijaz
That is an idiotic assumption on a networked multi user system.User needs an admin? Call tech support, admin handles it remotely via ssh.
If the desktop assumes sudo, that might just end up with the user getting to talk to HR and IT security.
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@spacehobo @lautreg @pafurijaz
That is an idiotic assumption on a networked multi user system.User needs an admin? Call tech support, admin handles it remotely via ssh.
If the desktop assumes sudo, that might just end up with the user getting to talk to HR and IT security.
@leeloo @spacehobo @pafurijaz
If the user isn't in sudo group, no problems. -
@leeloo @spacehobo @pafurijaz
If the user isn't in sudo group, no problems.@lautreg @spacehobo @pafurijaz
How can you depend on sudo, but then not have problems when the user doesn't have permission to run sudo? -
@lautreg @spacehobo @pafurijaz
How can you depend on sudo, but then not have problems when the user doesn't have permission to run sudo?@leeloo @spacehobo @pafurijaz
I prefer use doas.
But, if there is KDE, I must keep sudo, but I don't use it.
It's my personal computer.
Servers don't have desktop environments.In fact, I need the admin display challenge (that use sudo) when I change the theme for sddm, or lightm.
For people whis computer managed by me, they use doas because I teach them, if I think I can allow them to make some admin task.
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@spacehobo @pafurijaz
You van install and use doas in Linux Debian.
It's great. I recommend it.
But, KDE Plasma depend to sudo, so at the end you have both.@lautreg @spacehobo @pafurijaz theres also 'run0' in SystemD
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@lautreg @spacehobo @pafurijaz
How can you depend on sudo, but then not have problems when the user doesn't have permission to run sudo?@leeloo @lautreg @spacehobo @pafurijaz True they should not depend on sudo, they should depend on 'whatever' defined by some config that could be sudo like $EDITOR. sudo is not 'critical infrastructure', just a means to elevate privilege. You can do this without sudo, its a convenience util and maybe not even the right way to do things. I don't really know what to say to "having to call helpdesk when you need a patch". Aaanyway I hope someone supports, perhaps someone that needs sudo.
