Wanted: Advice from CS teachers

wakame@tech.lgbt

@futurebird
I know this from people I taught programming.

And I think the main problem is that the computer is judging you. In a way.

This can come in two forms:
a) The program fails to run, shows you an error, etc.
b) The IDE adds an error or warning to a line saying: This is wrong.

So there is "objective proof" right there on the screen that you "are a failure". This is not some other person saying it, this is a piece of technology.

This is also something I hate from a usability/user experience perspective.

The computer doesn't say: "Sorry, I don't understand what you mean with that line."
It says: "This line can not be processed because the user is dumb."

(Not quite, overemphasizing.)

When taking about critique or blame, there is this typical antipattern: "Everybody uses a fork."

No, they don't. I use a fork, I want you to use a fork, but instead of saying that, I invoke a mystical "everybody".

flisty@mstdn.social

@futurebird maybe reiterate at the start of the demo, and even put up a short statement on the wall so you can point at it rather than answer! Should drum it in quickly

futurebird@sauropods.win

So Your Code Won't Run

1. There *is* an error in your code. It's probably just a typo. You can find it by looking for it in a calm, systematic way.

2. The error will make sense. It's not random. The computer does not "just hate you"

3. Read the error message. The error message *tries* to help you, but it's just a computer so YOUR HUMAN INTELLIGENCE may be needed to find the real source of error.

4. Every programmer makes errors. Great programmers can find and fix them.

1/

abramkedge@beige.party

@futurebird

> Maybe I will give them some broken code and we will find the errors together.

I think this is an excellent idea!

jenesuispasgoth@pouet.chapril.org

@futurebird no great insight to be honest. If I was explaining something I tell them to first listen to what I have to say, and later read carefully the error message. Recently I've witnessed students sometimes misread severely what to write (they confuse upper case I's and lower case l's), but mostly because they don't even try to make sense of what they're writing: they're just copying without thinking.

rosymaths@mathstodon.xyz

@futurebird Maybe some direct instruction troubleshooting lessons?

Distribute code broken in specific ways and show them how to tell which problem is showing up?

The calling out is definitely contageous, I recognise that. Can you structure in class troubleshooting time as you go - perhaps each kid has a visual token so you can see at a glance who needs help and who can give it? Something like a card with different colours front and back for /?

phronetic@hachyderm.io

@futurebird Not a teacher, but that sounds great.

Learning what error messages are and what they can tell you is so important. It's so different to many other subjects where you don't get that kind of information when something goes wrong, plus they will have grown up using computers of various kinds where an error message really is just a cryptic string of words that they can't do anything with.

futurebird@sauropods.win

Things to Try:
* look for typos
* look at what the error message indicates.

If these don't work consider reverting your last changes to the last working version of your code. Then try making the changes again, but be more careful.

If you can't revert the changes, start removing bits of the code systematically. Remove the things you think might cause the error and run the code again. Isolate the change or code that causes the problem.

You can be a great programmer.

2/2

rogerbw@discordian.social

@futurebird So Your Code Won't Run: great! Errors like this that stop it running completely are much easier to track down than errors that just give you the wrong answer. Or give you the wrong answer _sometimes_.

wakame@tech.lgbt

@futurebird

I think this meme captures a point I am trying to make very nicely.

johannes_lehmann@fediscience.org

@futurebird
Maybe it could help if you give the explanation you just gave at the beginning of the class - even with a little example of an error they common encounter (e.g. path wrong or typo)? I think the idea that how to understand and solve problems (errors) is what you want to teach is not obvious when people think about coding but also reassuring. And emphasising what works for you (and why) - e.g. ask questions when I make my rounds - could also make students feel more comfortable to say what works for them.

I’ve only ever taught university students, so I wouldn’t know if this works for school age kids. But I have felt flustered myself when attending programming workshops even after a decade of programming semi-regularly - maybe indeed because there is the fear of falling behind during the lessons.

roknrol@beige.party

@wakame I think that's what made me the most comfortable as a programmer (and likely autistic) -there's no judgement.

Two plus two doesn't ever equal five, so if the answer is five, clearly it's something that *I've* done wrong and not just some asshole pretending to not understand what I meant when I was using "plain language".

@futurebird

bottled_o_taki@blackqueer.life

@futurebird unlike math, when writing code you will get almost instant feedback. the code editor could complain, the compiler could say no, etc... so more to get frustrated with.

ive mostly taught highschool to college students and it really doesnt get better. the impatience will always be there. however I have noticed that giving students tools or guides such as a "troubleshooting framework" does a lot. if you notice similar patterns in their questions or errors, this can help build that framework.

You could also just throw the computers out the window and just write pseudocode on paper and do dry running. My highschool compsci teacher did this to help sharpen our problem solving skills

futurebird@sauropods.win

@wakame

This is helpful for me. I had a hard time understanding why one student was upset, almost to the point of tears (they are very sensitive) that the error message said "error on line 32" but, really the problem was the way they originally named the variable.

"Why couldn't it just say the error was on line 4? I tried everything I could to fix line 32. 🥺 "

My sweet child... it's just not that smart, not like you.

wakame@tech.lgbt

@futurebird

[Remark: I am not a teacher, but I taught/coached some people 1-on-1.]

Working with a computer is not like working with a human.

A computer can't be "wrong". Not in a human sense. It's just a machine.

So if your program works, then reality and physics and so on validate your work.
You have made your will manifest outside of your head, independent of judgement or opinion of others.
Part of you has become immortal.

If it doesn't work, then there is nobody to console you, nobody you can blame for not understanding you.
What you did is objectively wrong.

I think the second thing deals a rather unique blow to your psyche.
You can't blame your building materials, or other people, or anything else. The blame is yours and yours alone.

Of course you can "correct" your mistake, fix your bugs and so on.
But I still think this is a large piece of humble pie you have to digest first.

wakame@tech.lgbt

@futurebird
I totally cried when I was 14 and I tought in my naivety that I knew almost everything and then a simple program failed.

[Edit: And seriously: I think it is hard to understand if the voice from god tells your that there is an error line 32, that this could be somehow wrong.

I mean, this is a computer, right? It doesn't make mistakes.

Maybe emphasizing that the IDE and the compiler and everything else was written by humans and that they discover bugs in those programs all the time could help.]

venite@mastodon.nl

@futurebird I gave my students code with errors in it and had them fix it. But they do have to be at a certain level to be able to do that.

I stole this idea from the Java certification exams, which had code examples that would get most people fired.

mintspies@beige.party

@AbramKedge @futurebird I do this (in the context of a different academic subject) with "bad" essays, where we work collaboratively to find errors and redraft improvements. Hope it's effective for you.

rpsu@mas.to

@futurebird I think CS students and also everyone else should use the list, but in reverse order.
1). Calm down, you’ll get over it and find a fix in no time. Everyone does.
2) Read the error and read it again. It tells you pretty much where, or sometimes even what exactly is the problem. Fix is right there.
3) The error makes sense, it is not magic. Ever.
4) It is probably a typo, you’ll find it after competing the first 3 points. Go to 1).

fubaroque@mastodon.social

@futurebird Kids don’t know how to fail anymore. How did that happen?

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Wanted: Advice from CS teachers