TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in.

@jwildeboer @codinghorror Shhhh! People will see this and the used market will get vastly more expensive.

@drs1969 Thanks for sharing. Very interesting and reassuring.

My experience seems to support the conclusions. Stable for the first couple of years, then a noticeable drop off after long journeys using high power charging stations.

Not scientific, just personal intuition.

@jwildeboer Agreed, and a good article too. Very reassuring.

My main issue (and I’m currently in the market for a new car), is that I need to travel long distances frequently, moderately laden, and often in the cold (more frequently in the winter).

I could afford a decent spec EV, but I couldn’t really justify it, and would prefer to have the spare income.

I don’t pay for fuel, so it’s not that, it’s the hours added to journeys charging and the very real risk of being stranded tens (or a hundred in some cases) of miles from help. Some weeks could add 10-15 hours of charging for me, not including those while sleeping.

We trialled one of the new mid range Kias in ‘long range’ configurations, and struggled to get even 50% of the advertised range in December. Obviously that’s down to traffic, load, road conditions, temperature, and the type of miles you’re doing (for me it’s motorway or very rural fast B roads) but it’s still hard to get a good read on advertised range. It also really wasn’t cheap.

I know I’m probably an outlier, but it frustrates me as I’m environmentally conscious otherwise. Don’t drive much except for work, and I do drive a hybrid, and drive economically. I do carry auxiliary fuel tanks as even with a 400-450 mile range, it’s easy to get caught out between the UK and various sites over Europe.

I’m excited for the new battery tech people are working on now, though.

@jwildeboer untrue they use the same cells as box mod vapes that at most will last 5 years until half the capacity is gone. But to be fair modern vehicles are designed to be thrown away and still be able to charge price wise as much as possible. Any vehicle from 2026 would at longest last 15 years. My gasser is 31 years old and it's just gotten broken in engine wise.

@NeonxDaze You have convinced me, stranger from the internet. The article is obviously totally wrong because you know everything about ... checks notes ... vapes.

@jwildeboer most vapes use 18650 through 12700 cells, 3 companies make them. They're the exact same batteries mostly LG & Samsung because they are A bin cells. Ones that don't qualify for A bin get sold off to smaller companies to rebrand them because either LG, Samsung, or Sony don't feel safe putting their name on them over them being defective. But what do I know I'm just a gasser and EV mechanic.

@NeonxDaze You simply dismissed every argument that article makes by reducing it to your knowledge about cells. Even when the article gives numbers that clearly are not aligned to your statement that cells lose 50% of their capacity after 5 years. But what do I know. Welcome to my blocklist.

@jwildeboer it's impossible for lithium ion cells to last longer than 10 years under discharge and recharging until they're nonfunctional. The only option is to ditch lithium ion and create a better cell or go to hydrogen. Hydrogen is a much better alternative just because any gasser can be converted to run off hydrogen. No more mining for finite resources just water and baking soda electrified to separate oxygen from hydrogen and you'll still get the glorious sound of a gas engine.

@Nerdfest @renard @jwildeboer I'm hoping this is true. Although I live where roads are salted 4+months out of the year, so my car frame might not last as long as my first battery. But I might consider paying to replace it by 2030 to get one that has a longer range. (220 miles in summer, Subaru Solterra, 2023)
We still have to use my son's ICE vehicle (my old car) for road trips over 2 hours driving distance.

@Nerdfest @renard @jwildeboer There is no repairing ICE… Oh, you mean Internal Combustion Engine.

@jwildeboer too bad no right to repair and not a single electronic item lasts longer than a mechanical one. This isn’t exclusive to only EV but ICE vehicles with stupid electronic parking brakes etc

@jwildeboer

So many (good) things about solar and battery technology seem like stealth protagonist heros in the sci fi novel we're in.

@Nerdfest

And vehicle lifetime including used market through dismantling, the worst aspect of EVs will ne same as all vehicles, the smonnt pf plastic on construction.

How much petroleum will an EV use in 20 years? A dozen liters of lubricants and maybe fluids in transmissions?

I owned a 1968 small american car with 215,000 miles, nearly all by rhe original owner (not me) who religiously changed the engine oil every 2000 (two). At 5 quarts each time that's 200 changes, 1000 liters in lubricants never mind fuel. Otherwise ot was a marvel of preventative maintenance and old world quality. And that's as good as they get.

@renard @jwildeboer

@jwildeboer That's great and its an additional reason why if I'll ever need a daily driver its likely going to be electric (at the moment I'd rather take the train as much as I can and buy a fun IC car for that single time each week I need to take a car to go somewhere).

I only hope that when the time comes batteries are going to be easier and cheaper to source. While batteries already lasts more than the expected car lifetime I'm pretty sure that with the reduced wear and tear EV components endure you can easily extend that lifetime. On the other hand I heard EV owners complaining about makers who refuses to sell new batteries (forcing them to source from used batteries from the junkyard) or who sells these at price high enough to make the replacement not worth the cost (despite the rest of the car is in pristine condition).

@shtrom @jwildeboer @chrisp I also worry about the on board software, but if I bought a car, there is no way it would be ICE. Last time I looked at offers, they even weren‘t that much cheaper. And I‘d be curious to see how the care manufacturer handles GDPR based requests. We always have the right to demand deletion and also stop of collection of data. Wondering if they have implemented that case.

@jwildeboer I use home assistant to manage my EV not the manufactures app. Not perfect but a step closer and limits data leakage.

@jwildeboer Buying a used EV is a smart move and usually way cheaper than buying new. Just make sure to request (or get) a certified battery health check. It’s inexpensive, very reliable, and can save you from burning money on a bad pack.