This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
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This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@myrmepropagandisti don't know if they're here illegally. i just think it's odd ..
that's chilling. but this is how fascism worked in germany, or the east-german rule. you need a lot of those inofficial snitches to rule, and you easily get them. -
This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@GlasWolf @futurebird Glad he made it to expose the racist twats.
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Is not like they call in, crying and in distress having been menaced by some horrible gang— no it’s a literal child trying their best to learn the damn alphabet— and this lady is like “oh he’s kinda different better call the government”
@futurebird I almost called the police once. I was anxious and wanted to visit a public park. There were people different than me playing soccer and hanging out. I had heard that some cars were broken into. I noticed a guy walk up to my car and look in the windows. He seemed to be looking in other cars. I think he clocked me and walked back to the group. I drove away. I thought about calling but:
* looking in cars is not a crime
* I was afraid, my judgement was cloudy
* I don't trust the police. -
@futurebird I almost called the police once. I was anxious and wanted to visit a public park. There were people different than me playing soccer and hanging out. I had heard that some cars were broken into. I noticed a guy walk up to my car and look in the windows. He seemed to be looking in other cars. I think he clocked me and walked back to the group. I drove away. I thought about calling but:
* looking in cars is not a crime
* I was afraid, my judgement was cloudy
* I don't trust the police.It’s probably a good call. If I see someone like that I try to ask someone “do you know who that is?” (eg. ask some of the checkers guys if it’s summer or maybe the postman in winter)
If I’m not intimidated by the person I say hello to them.
There much less risky was of being nebby— and in the US at least cops are not very helpful or effective at investigating crimes that impact regular people— they are happy to use any noise you make to justify their own ends.
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This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@futurebird @dannotdaniel Is there any chance that Ben Palmer is not actually representing what really happened but creating something for our consumption? Do you know him? Can you verify him in someway?
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I listened to the first half of this, and the caller used school resources to look up the ethnicities of the child's parents so she could report them. Don't report any data to school!
@futurebird @richpuchalsky that jumped out at me too; like, on what form did the school ask for country of birth of the parents of students?!?
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This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@futurebird Thanks for sharing I was about to. THIS is the kind of people who turned in Anne Frank. They are right there LIVE.
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Is not like they call in, crying and in distress having been menaced by some horrible gang— no it’s a literal child trying their best to learn the damn alphabet— and this lady is like “oh he’s kinda different better call the government”
@futurebird i feel I need to give this guy a hug though. What a task to have to not only listen to that, but even engage...
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This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@futurebird The casual assumption that the parents must be undocumented because they were born in other countries ... do these people not know about green cards? They talk about "doing it the right way" but don't even consider that someone with an accent might be here legally, that there is such a status as permanent legal resident. And they let someone this ignorant be a teacher
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It’s probably a good call. If I see someone like that I try to ask someone “do you know who that is?” (eg. ask some of the checkers guys if it’s summer or maybe the postman in winter)
If I’m not intimidated by the person I say hello to them.
There much less risky was of being nebby— and in the US at least cops are not very helpful or effective at investigating crimes that impact regular people— they are happy to use any noise you make to justify their own ends.
@futurebird these are great suggestions of better solutions! Your analysis is spot on.
As a kid, we had police come to our summer camps with their dog to talk to us and tell us if we see something, say something for people acting suspicious in the neighborhood. Kids have to hear other adults explain to them the nuances, or they might blindly trust the "good cop" authority, and not recognize their own biases.
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This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
This needs to be on the Colbert show or some national show.
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IDK he didn't tell us who she was or put her address up there. That would be kind of irresponsible since people are mad.
That leaves anyone mad about this to try to think about if they know someone like her.
And to maybe reflect on if they might have done anything similar ever.
@futurebird It can do that. It is interesting to see something like this. And know what is out there.
But I worry it can "confirm" the bias that -some- leftists have that conservatives are heartless monsters, end of story.
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This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@futurebird "Der größte Lump im ganzen Land,
das ist und bleibt der Denunziant." -
@futurebird It can do that. It is interesting to see something like this. And know what is out there.
But I worry it can "confirm" the bias that -some- leftists have that conservatives are heartless monsters, end of story.
@Scofisticated @futurebird racists *are* heartless monsters towards the people they are racist against. That’s how in-group vs out-group works (and why ethnic cleansing is always preceded by an uptick in dehumanizing language). Empathy only extends to the in-group, and they are probably kind enough to not be a monster. Perhaps we can hope that in-group can be expanded, but in my experience people tend to cling tightly to whatever in-group they were brought up in, unless they are neurodivergent.
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@Scofisticated @futurebird racists *are* heartless monsters towards the people they are racist against. That’s how in-group vs out-group works (and why ethnic cleansing is always preceded by an uptick in dehumanizing language). Empathy only extends to the in-group, and they are probably kind enough to not be a monster. Perhaps we can hope that in-group can be expanded, but in my experience people tend to cling tightly to whatever in-group they were brought up in, unless they are neurodivergent.
@Frantasaur @futurebird I believe saying people are heartless is also dehumanizing. Whether or not they will change is another matter. But, assuming they cant is robbing them of the possibility and opportunity.
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@Frantasaur @futurebird I believe saying people are heartless is also dehumanizing. Whether or not they will change is another matter. But, assuming they cant is robbing them of the possibility and opportunity.
@Scofisticated @futurebird I don’t believe making an observation about how people act towards others is dehumanizing. I would prefer to center the victims of racism, not tiptoe around being careful how to label people who are demonstrably and consistently cruel to some of their fellow human beings for no reason other than they look or sound different. These people will only change if they are censured by their in-group for such behavior, and I can’t do that by pussyfooting around this.
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@futurebird It can do that. It is interesting to see something like this. And know what is out there.
But I worry it can "confirm" the bias that -some- leftists have that conservatives are heartless monsters, end of story.
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@edgeofeurope @futurebird Actually the people who ran the Nazi camps were not ordinary people, they were hardcore followers. And they didn't just obeyed "superior orders", they made the decisions they rightfully assumed were required the whole nazi project. Not to say ordinary people played no part, of course. But what Arendt called "banality of evil" is quite misleading.
@ratel @edgeofeurope @futurebird
I loved my grandfather. Some years ago, he was long dead, I asked my mother 'mum, please tell me what grandfather did in WW2, I won't judge him'.
Her answer was 'don't promise that so quickly'.He had served in the SS in a special unit hunting partisans. He later said that he was no nazi (except some 'regular' patriotic feelings and a sense of 'duty for the Volk'). When he got drafted and was anyway enlisted, he heard that in the SS they received better food and a bottle of Schnaps every week. This was sufficient as a motivation.
'Hunting partisans'. That was not the death camps, but if you don'tknow how SS treated civilians suspected of supporting partisans, look it up.I am telling this here because from what I remember, he was a very normal man. No monster (of course, we rely on his narrative to know what he did and what not).
For him, 'He did just his job', which had some unpleasant parts, I guess.Also, what is happening in fascism is that there are sufficiently ordinary people 'just going on and doing their job' to make possible that some other ordinary people that need the money and stability to join ranks with obvious sadists and work as an institution like ICE.
The dude that pulls the trigger is just one piece of the machine. There is a whole army of enablers behind who would not enjoy being fascist murderers, but put a lot of unconscious effort in not thinking very much about their role in making it happen. -
@Scofisticated @futurebird I don’t believe making an observation about how people act towards others is dehumanizing. I would prefer to center the victims of racism, not tiptoe around being careful how to label people who are demonstrably and consistently cruel to some of their fellow human beings for no reason other than they look or sound different. These people will only change if they are censured by their in-group for such behavior, and I can’t do that by pussyfooting around this.
I definitly agree that the victims are the first priority. And agree that criticism of bigottry is important. Even sometimes calling out. But there is a difference between critism, call out, and dehumanization.
I want the victim saved from racism, but I also want the perpatrator saved from it to. As much as possible. That's where I stand on it.
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@futurebird @richpuchalsky that jumped out at me too; like, on what form did the school ask for country of birth of the parents of students?!?
