I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
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@johnzajac iirc this episode's argument was that the risk was always overblown. Some countries didn't invest in Y2K mitigation and had no problems.
You're Wrong About: The Y2K Bug
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-y2k-bug/id1380008439?i=1000473519597
@BigHeadMode @johnzajac
I'd look for more workings on that argument, and not in someone yammering on a podcast.
Country names, for instance.Framing maintenance - even delayed maintenance - as investment may be the first visible error.
We sorted out the Y2K bug,which didn't need a lot of effort, and worked around the 2k0229 bug which also didn't need much effort, but we did need to deal with both.
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@johnzajac 2038 will be much worse.
@mpdg @johnzajac
I think mostly dealt with by hardware evolution, for us. -
@johnzajac worthwhile pointing out that many websites displayed an impossible time due to a Y2K issue in Perl. The world did not stop.
Also, the consulting companies made out like bandits. They used the concept of Y2K compliance to drive business.
Because of that I am always cautious about Y2K as an analogy.
@glent @johnzajac
Try the analogy that if the problem had been tackled more timely, the chap above could have started a year earlier, fixed the problems, and been sent for holidays and weekends in a proper fashion.Now extend it to problems some of which are and some might be existential, and the same management, Press, arsehole commentator, populists involved.
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We also learned that experts and scientists are *not* the people you want to set the pace of responding to an emergency or catastrophe.
Had experts and scientists accepted (or assumed, to limit harm) that COVID was airborne in March 2020, the pandemic could have gone a much different way.
Notoriously, many credentialed scientists also were like "we don't know if respirators work without RCTs!" which is, bluntly, batshit stupid.
@johnzajac @pjakobs @syllopsium
Could you name one, with credentials, please? -
I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
Because within that little perplexion - people thinking the problem was a hoax because it was fixed before it destroyed shit - is an encapsulation of the current era of Western politics, including COVID mitigation, lesser evil politics, fascism, and crime rate hyperbole
@johnzajac Agree and I'm curious how you would teach and have impact. The counter-factual (ignoring the Y2K threat) is hard for most people or they don't care. I think had Y2K followed 9/11 the same effort wouldn't have materialized because with fear many just give up.
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@__Styx__ @johnzajac Also we fixed acid rain caused by sulphuric acid from coal fired power stations.
@Old_IT_geek @__Styx__ @johnzajac and by removing sulphur from diesel and lead from gasoline.
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@johnzajac my mother spent years helping to fix COBOL programs for the Y2K bug
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@johnzajac Sorry, but I strongly disagree that it's been 26 years since Y2K. It's only been two or three... Right? Right?!?
@stanley@heretic.social @johnzajac@dice.camp you just made me realize that we are closer to the y2k38 bug than to the y2k bug.
2038 felt so far away back then...
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@stanley@heretic.social @johnzajac@dice.camp you just made me realize that we are closer to the y2k38 bug than to the y2k bug.
2038 felt so far away back then...
@JD557 @johnzajac I mentioned the 2038 Epochalypse to my (much younger) coworkers and was surprised they thought "Y2K turned out to be nothing". I had to explain that a lot of people worked hard to turn it into nothing.
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I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
Because within that little perplexion - people thinking the problem was a hoax because it was fixed before it destroyed shit - is an encapsulation of the current era of Western politics, including COVID mitigation, lesser evil politics, fascism, and crime rate hyperbole
I did a lot of Y2K work at a big appliance outfit in Louisville KY.
The problem was real, everyone had been warned, the fixes were often quite troublesome, but it was good for the economy and good for the profession of software.
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I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
Because within that little perplexion - people thinking the problem was a hoax because it was fixed before it destroyed shit - is an encapsulation of the current era of Western politics, including COVID mitigation, lesser evil politics, fascism, and crime rate hyperbole
@johnzajac My company did a lot of Y2K work back in the day, and it was absolutely real.
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I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
Because within that little perplexion - people thinking the problem was a hoax because it was fixed before it destroyed shit - is an encapsulation of the current era of Western politics, including COVID mitigation, lesser evil politics, fascism, and crime rate hyperbole
@johnzajac@dice.camp idk how I get to feel smart for the "because we caught it" being the lesson I had learned from the story. Thinking that it's a hoax when there's a very simple logical explanation of what the problem is is pretty crazy to me
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@johnzajac Agree and I'm curious how you would teach and have impact. The counter-factual (ignoring the Y2K threat) is hard for most people or they don't care. I think had Y2K followed 9/11 the same effort wouldn't have materialized because with fear many just give up.
Could it be a combination of history "ending", our political class turning away from people and towards their owner/operators, and a "number goes up this quarter" mentality that drives almost all business in this day and age?
The ruling class doesn't believe they will be subject to disasters, no matter what they are, because they believe their own propaganda about the absolute power of wealth. That's why they build bunkers instead of lower carbon pollution.
Joke's on them, of course.
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Could it be a combination of history "ending", our political class turning away from people and towards their owner/operators, and a "number goes up this quarter" mentality that drives almost all business in this day and age?
The ruling class doesn't believe they will be subject to disasters, no matter what they are, because they believe their own propaganda about the absolute power of wealth. That's why they build bunkers instead of lower carbon pollution.
Joke's on them, of course.
Also -
It's dispositively true that if you address problems early they end up being cheaper to fix and less destructive. But does it make rich people richer?
In retrospect, I think the neofascist's' total control of our economy and society, and funneling of money to the worst people in the world, will be seen as obvious. "How could those people not see these corrupt criminals for what they were and throw them out windows?" they will ask in 50 years.
The 75 year olds will be like
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@johnzajac Ah, well, I never had any hope for that after our team getting lectured by a boss about wasting all those company resources on year 2000 research, compliance and issue fixing because it was obvious that nothing had happened.
@halla@kde.social @johnzajac@dice.camp shoulda rolled back the fixes and quit on the spot
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Also -
It's dispositively true that if you address problems early they end up being cheaper to fix and less destructive. But does it make rich people richer?
In retrospect, I think the neofascist's' total control of our economy and society, and funneling of money to the worst people in the world, will be seen as obvious. "How could those people not see these corrupt criminals for what they were and throw them out windows?" they will ask in 50 years.
The 75 year olds will be like
️If you want to teach folks about prevention vs reaction, you've got to do something about key cultural values like "harm reduction" (which assumes that harm will occur...), individualism (we don't need to worry about that because it won't affect *me*), and systemic precarity (if I make a million dollars today because we didn't solve that problem that will cost someone else a trillion tomorrow, it was worth it)
You also have to break everyone's acculturated futility bias.
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I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
Because within that little perplexion - people thinking the problem was a hoax because it was fixed before it destroyed shit - is an encapsulation of the current era of Western politics, including COVID mitigation, lesser evil politics, fascism, and crime rate hyperbole
@johnzajac my question : how come the Iran’s internet blocage did not affect international internet communications as happened previously?
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@johnzajac my question : how come the Iran’s internet blocage did not affect international internet communications as happened previously?
I don't know, friend. I'm an opera singer.
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I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
Because within that little perplexion - people thinking the problem was a hoax because it was fixed before it destroyed shit - is an encapsulation of the current era of Western politics, including COVID mitigation, lesser evil politics, fascism, and crime rate hyperbole
@johnzajac the timei spent napping on our data center tea room's sofa, thec16 hour shifts we pulled flashing firmware. Yeah, safe to say that I agree.
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@Extra_Special_Carbon @mpdg @johnzajac lets focus all OSS efforts on ensuring that a company like MNT research and their products are impervious to the 2038 bug so they can rise like a Pheonix out of the ashes and usher in a kinder world
@fl0und3r @Extra_Special_Carbon @mpdg @johnzajac Most modern 64-bit architectures such as those used by the MNT Reform are already pretty much Y2038-ready. At worst there may be a few remaining relatively shallow problems at application levels, but it's unlikely they'll be too difficult to fix.
The big problems are with 32-bit architectures, so not so much modern desktops/laptops/servers, but older computers and things in the more embedded direction.
