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AI is making us write more code.

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  • mlevison@agilealliance.socialM mlevison@agilealliance.social

    AI is making us write more code. That's the problem.

    I analyzed research papers on AI-generated code quality. The findings:

    → 1.7x more issues than human-written code
    → 30-41% increase in technical debt
    → 39% increase in cognitive complexity
    → Initial speed gains disappear within a few months

    We're building the wrong thing faster and calling it productivity.

    lunaticdancer@mastodon.gamedev.placeL This user is from outside of this forum
    lunaticdancer@mastodon.gamedev.placeL This user is from outside of this forum
    lunaticdancer@mastodon.gamedev.place
    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
    #5

    @mlevison so true, it astounds me people didn't see this coming from the start. Also there's the cognitive deterioration double whammy.

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    • mlevison@agilealliance.socialM mlevison@agilealliance.social

      AI is making us write more code. That's the problem.

      I analyzed research papers on AI-generated code quality. The findings:

      → 1.7x more issues than human-written code
      → 30-41% increase in technical debt
      → 39% increase in cognitive complexity
      → Initial speed gains disappear within a few months

      We're building the wrong thing faster and calling it productivity.

      oschonrock@mastodon.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
      oschonrock@mastodon.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
      oschonrock@mastodon.social
      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
      #6

      @mlevison

      That's my experience too.

      Dave Farley's. MSE channe, which I usually respect,l recently claimed the opposite though, based on a study they took part in.

      1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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      • mlevison@agilealliance.socialM mlevison@agilealliance.social

        AI is making us write more code. That's the problem.

        I analyzed research papers on AI-generated code quality. The findings:

        → 1.7x more issues than human-written code
        → 30-41% increase in technical debt
        → 39% increase in cognitive complexity
        → Initial speed gains disappear within a few months

        We're building the wrong thing faster and calling it productivity.

        piper@lgbtqia.spaceP This user is from outside of this forum
        piper@lgbtqia.spaceP This user is from outside of this forum
        piper@lgbtqia.space
        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
        #7

        @mlevison Goodhart's law in action. Actually, I'm not sure it even is an example of Goodhart's law. Raw quantity of code output would never have correlated strongly with quality. What do they think they're doing‽

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        • mlevison@agilealliance.socialM mlevison@agilealliance.social

          AI is making us write more code. That's the problem.

          I analyzed research papers on AI-generated code quality. The findings:

          → 1.7x more issues than human-written code
          → 30-41% increase in technical debt
          → 39% increase in cognitive complexity
          → Initial speed gains disappear within a few months

          We're building the wrong thing faster and calling it productivity.

          crackhappy@cyberpunk.lolC This user is from outside of this forum
          crackhappy@cyberpunk.lolC This user is from outside of this forum
          crackhappy@cyberpunk.lol
          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
          #8

          @mlevison I use LLMs to help me with basic code writing tasks, generating the structural frameworks, saving me a lot of typing time. However, I never rely on that code out of the box, I always review it thoroughly and often just snip and prune. I would never attempt to give an LLM a complicated set of instructions, it's going to fail every time.

          crackhappy@cyberpunk.lolC project1enigma@chaos.socialP 2 Antworten Letzte Antwort
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          • crackhappy@cyberpunk.lolC crackhappy@cyberpunk.lol

            @mlevison I use LLMs to help me with basic code writing tasks, generating the structural frameworks, saving me a lot of typing time. However, I never rely on that code out of the box, I always review it thoroughly and often just snip and prune. I would never attempt to give an LLM a complicated set of instructions, it's going to fail every time.

            crackhappy@cyberpunk.lolC This user is from outside of this forum
            crackhappy@cyberpunk.lolC This user is from outside of this forum
            crackhappy@cyberpunk.lol
            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
            #9

            @mlevison Intellisense, pretti, etc. are all just tools for a smart developer.

            thirstybear@agilodon.socialT 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
            0
            • mlevison@agilealliance.socialM mlevison@agilealliance.social

              AI is making us write more code. That's the problem.

              I analyzed research papers on AI-generated code quality. The findings:

              → 1.7x more issues than human-written code
              → 30-41% increase in technical debt
              → 39% increase in cognitive complexity
              → Initial speed gains disappear within a few months

              We're building the wrong thing faster and calling it productivity.

              thirstybear@agilodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
              thirstybear@agilodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
              thirstybear@agilodon.social
              schrieb zuletzt editiert von
              #10

              @mlevison I hear you. I am seeing it first hand. And I am being hammered for pointing this out and encouraging caution, while others are being rewarded for shipping 💩 “because AI”.

              Just call me ‘Cassandra’ 🤷‍♂️

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              • mlevison@agilealliance.socialM mlevison@agilealliance.social

                Full analysis:
                https://agilepainrelief.com/blog/ai-generated-code-quality-problems/?utm_source=mastodon&utm_campaign=archive-reshare

                #AI #AIinSoftwareDevelopment

                sambeaven@toot.walesS This user is from outside of this forum
                sambeaven@toot.walesS This user is from outside of this forum
                sambeaven@toot.wales
                schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                #11

                @mlevison This talk on AI productivity from a Stanford researcher goes into detail on this. Really interesting and gels with what you're saying: the actual productivity gains tended to be with simple (low-complexity, greenfield) tasks rather than anything bigger or more complex. https://youtu.be/tbDDYKRFjhk?si=AM5DPcJGeg_3ignp

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                • crackhappy@cyberpunk.lolC crackhappy@cyberpunk.lol

                  @mlevison Intellisense, pretti, etc. are all just tools for a smart developer.

                  thirstybear@agilodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                  thirstybear@agilodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                  thirstybear@agilodon.social
                  schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                  #12

                  @crackhappy @mlevison Jetbrains vanilla Intellisense was pretty good even before the latest epidemic of AI psychosis.

                  crackhappy@cyberpunk.lolC 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                  • thirstybear@agilodon.socialT thirstybear@agilodon.social

                    @crackhappy @mlevison Jetbrains vanilla Intellisense was pretty good even before the latest epidemic of AI psychosis.

                    crackhappy@cyberpunk.lolC This user is from outside of this forum
                    crackhappy@cyberpunk.lolC This user is from outside of this forum
                    crackhappy@cyberpunk.lol
                    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                    #13

                    @thirstybear @mlevison I refuse to call what we currently have "Artificial Intelligence" because it is not. It's a fundamentally clever implementation of Markov chains with way way too much power applied.

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                    • mlevison@agilealliance.socialM mlevison@agilealliance.social

                      AI is making us write more code. That's the problem.

                      I analyzed research papers on AI-generated code quality. The findings:

                      → 1.7x more issues than human-written code
                      → 30-41% increase in technical debt
                      → 39% increase in cognitive complexity
                      → Initial speed gains disappear within a few months

                      We're building the wrong thing faster and calling it productivity.

                      h4heights@mstdn.socialH This user is from outside of this forum
                      h4heights@mstdn.socialH This user is from outside of this forum
                      h4heights@mstdn.social
                      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                      #14

                      @mlevison
                      l suspect the line about the volume of code increase is conservative.

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                      0
                      • mlevison@agilealliance.socialM mlevison@agilealliance.social

                        AI is making us write more code. That's the problem.

                        I analyzed research papers on AI-generated code quality. The findings:

                        → 1.7x more issues than human-written code
                        → 30-41% increase in technical debt
                        → 39% increase in cognitive complexity
                        → Initial speed gains disappear within a few months

                        We're building the wrong thing faster and calling it productivity.

                        xabaras@androiddev.socialX This user is from outside of this forum
                        xabaras@androiddev.socialX This user is from outside of this forum
                        xabaras@androiddev.social
                        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                        #15

                        @ivanmorgillo What's your experience about this?

                        1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                        0
                        • mlevison@agilealliance.socialM mlevison@agilealliance.social

                          AI is making us write more code. That's the problem.

                          I analyzed research papers on AI-generated code quality. The findings:

                          → 1.7x more issues than human-written code
                          → 30-41% increase in technical debt
                          → 39% increase in cognitive complexity
                          → Initial speed gains disappear within a few months

                          We're building the wrong thing faster and calling it productivity.

                          enigma@norden.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                          enigma@norden.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                          enigma@norden.social
                          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                          #16

                          @mlevison Question : would have moonlanding been also a success if AI would have had control ? 😄

                          enigma@norden.socialE 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                          0
                          • enigma@norden.socialE enigma@norden.social

                            @mlevison Question : would have moonlanding been also a success if AI would have had control ? 😄

                            enigma@norden.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                            enigma@norden.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                            enigma@norden.social
                            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                            #17

                            @mlevison We may remember the iconic foto of dear Margaret Hamilton stood beside a pile of papers of machine code for the AGC computer . What if AI would have programmed it ? A late competition would be enlightened about mankind’s biggest challenge last century 😇

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                            • mlevison@agilealliance.socialM mlevison@agilealliance.social

                              AI is making us write more code. That's the problem.

                              I analyzed research papers on AI-generated code quality. The findings:

                              → 1.7x more issues than human-written code
                              → 30-41% increase in technical debt
                              → 39% increase in cognitive complexity
                              → Initial speed gains disappear within a few months

                              We're building the wrong thing faster and calling it productivity.

                              behrangsa@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                              behrangsa@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                              behrangsa@mastodon.social
                              schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                              #18

                              @mlevison I don't think any AI can write code worse than Windows, though. Just saying.

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                              • mlevison@agilealliance.socialM mlevison@agilealliance.social

                                AI is making us write more code. That's the problem.

                                I analyzed research papers on AI-generated code quality. The findings:

                                → 1.7x more issues than human-written code
                                → 30-41% increase in technical debt
                                → 39% increase in cognitive complexity
                                → Initial speed gains disappear within a few months

                                We're building the wrong thing faster and calling it productivity.

                                deborahh@cosocial.caD This user is from outside of this forum
                                deborahh@cosocial.caD This user is from outside of this forum
                                deborahh@cosocial.ca
                                schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                #19

                                @mlevison @Em0nM4stodon
                                → 30-41% increase in technical debt
                                😱

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                                0
                                • mlevison@agilealliance.socialM mlevison@agilealliance.social

                                  AI is making us write more code. That's the problem.

                                  I analyzed research papers on AI-generated code quality. The findings:

                                  → 1.7x more issues than human-written code
                                  → 30-41% increase in technical debt
                                  → 39% increase in cognitive complexity
                                  → Initial speed gains disappear within a few months

                                  We're building the wrong thing faster and calling it productivity.

                                  brad@1040ste.netB This user is from outside of this forum
                                  brad@1040ste.netB This user is from outside of this forum
                                  brad@1040ste.net
                                  schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                  #20

                                  @mlevison Echoes of the mountains of boilerplate crap churned out towards the height of the .com bubble 😄

                                  Pay by the SLOC, get more SLOC. Whether it does anything useful or not.

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                                  0
                                  • crackhappy@cyberpunk.lolC crackhappy@cyberpunk.lol

                                    @mlevison I use LLMs to help me with basic code writing tasks, generating the structural frameworks, saving me a lot of typing time. However, I never rely on that code out of the box, I always review it thoroughly and often just snip and prune. I would never attempt to give an LLM a complicated set of instructions, it's going to fail every time.

                                    project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
                                    project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
                                    project1enigma@chaos.social
                                    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                    #21

                                    @crackhappy @mlevison

                                    Couldn't human made deterministic tools (or changes to programming languages) help with boilerplate work instead of indeterministic intransparent generative AI?

                                    project1enigma@chaos.socialP 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                                    • project1enigma@chaos.socialP project1enigma@chaos.social

                                      @crackhappy @mlevison

                                      Couldn't human made deterministic tools (or changes to programming languages) help with boilerplate work instead of indeterministic intransparent generative AI?

                                      project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
                                      project1enigma@chaos.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
                                      project1enigma@chaos.social
                                      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                      #22

                                      @crackhappy @mlevison

                                      IIRC for some languages there also have been deterministic refactoring tools too that take over the tedious parts of refactorings (like "rename method" which exactly identified callers to adapt them).

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                                      • mlevison@agilealliance.socialM mlevison@agilealliance.social

                                        The bottleneck was never writing code. It's understanding what to build.

                                        If you're using AI coding tools, focus on:
                                        • Smaller features (if it's 1000 lines, it's too big to review)
                                        • Clear acceptance criteria before you prompt
                                        • Tests first, AI-generated code second
                                        • Security audits (AI can't do this)

                                        More code isn't the goal. Solving real problems is.

                                        weddige@gruene.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                                        weddige@gruene.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                                        weddige@gruene.social
                                        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                        #23

                                        @mlevison I had a discussion with some developers about this last week. If we expect developers to take responsibility for the code they generate, the amount of work is capped by their ability to review code. And if we expect more (which is absolutely necessary, if we want the promised productivity gains), we can't blame them, if it goes wrong.

                                        If we celebrate huge productivity gains, we give up the right to complain, if AI fails. And it will fail.

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                                        • mlevison@agilealliance.socialM mlevison@agilealliance.social

                                          AI is making us write more code. That's the problem.

                                          I analyzed research papers on AI-generated code quality. The findings:

                                          → 1.7x more issues than human-written code
                                          → 30-41% increase in technical debt
                                          → 39% increase in cognitive complexity
                                          → Initial speed gains disappear within a few months

                                          We're building the wrong thing faster and calling it productivity.

                                          herman@mastodon.worldH This user is from outside of this forum
                                          herman@mastodon.worldH This user is from outside of this forum
                                          herman@mastodon.world
                                          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                          #24

                                          @mlevison Overhyped and underdelivering, just like the 4GL hype of the late eighties which promised to make programmers redundant within 10 years. 🙄

                                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_programming_language

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