Once you realize it’s not “age verification”, but actually “identity verification”, then it’s easy to understand that the real goal is “papers, please” for the entire internet.
-
@passenger And the rise of far right parties can be directly attributed to the rise in anonymous bot armies paid and organized by foreign dictators.
I say: tackle the problem at the core.
The core?
The core is cruelty. The core is the enclosure of the commons; the backbone of how capitalism oppresses millions. All rooted in abuse culture and kyriarchy. The cultural premise that some people are superior and thus entitled to control those they deem inferior through coercion. All of this flows from that.
Troll farms are just ONE tool in the toolbox of corruption.
-
@passenger I seriously question if following around fascists/racists has done any good for society in the last decade or so.
On the contrary it seems like a bad addiction, and it's only getting worse because we're just injecting more of it into our daily lives. Why do we need to listen to them? Are we their lackeys?
You are seemingly unaware of the huge amounts of organizing that have occurred on social media for positive reasons. I'll grant that social media run by corporate predators is of course warped and untrustworthy, but that is not the inherent nature of social media or the internet as a whole.
Likewise, I'm willing to bet you have NO CLUE what antifascist action even is or how it works, much less what it has accomplished. Even under regimes that are seriously unfriendly to antifa in general, their work has led to the criminal convictions of some truly despicable rings of bastards.
You're jumping to a lot of conclusions in your own brain, so fully confident in your smartness that your blind spots are yawning chasms.
Less self-referential speculating, moar reading.
https://www.simonandschuster.co.uk/books/To-Catch-a-Fascist/Christopher-Mathias/9781668034767
-
@txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias @mhoye
Stepping away from the libertarian ideals of the internet is just an indirect way of saying you want the internet to step towards authoritarian ideals.
And you can take that evil shit and shove it. Have you not noticed what authoritarians do with power yet??
Are you aware that all of our social security information and most of our medical records have already been compromised? You REALLY want to fork over more personal information to some cloud where hackers and data brokers and fascist regimes can just play around with it? Once that data is getting hacked and spoofed, they'll just keep demanding more invasive data to prove ID-- right down to our retinal scans and fucking DNA.
None of this shit is about protecting kids, no matter what pretty claims they put on the tin. NONE OF IT.
@violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino @mhoye "Libertarian ideals" aren't the answer here. We absolutely need to regulate the billionaire platforms, either out of existence or at least into behaving half decently. What we must reject is regulating ordinary ppl into surveillance hell as a faux substitute for that.
-
@violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias
You might want to read this: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._1038/FullText.html
-
@violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino @mhoye "Libertarian ideals" aren't the answer here. We absolutely need to regulate the billionaire platforms, either out of existence or at least into behaving half decently. What we must reject is regulating ordinary ppl into surveillance hell as a faux substitute for that.
@dalias @violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino
Libertarian just means you're not the boss of me and selfish now. We've done that experiment and now we have the evidence. The libertarian ethos and its loudest adherents hasn't protected us from totalitarianism at all. It and they have endorsed and supported it.
Regulation isn't oppression. The fact that you don't need to worry what's in the water when you turn the tap doesn't give you less freedom, it gives you far more.
-
@dalias @violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino
Libertarian just means you're not the boss of me and selfish now. We've done that experiment and now we have the evidence. The libertarian ethos and its loudest adherents hasn't protected us from totalitarianism at all. It and they have endorsed and supported it.
Regulation isn't oppression. The fact that you don't need to worry what's in the water when you turn the tap doesn't give you less freedom, it gives you far more.
@mhoye @dalias @txtx @DiogoConstantino
I am talking about small l libertarianism here, not American Libertarian party crap.
And I truly don't understand how the hell anyone thinks regulation is going to magically fix the fact that oligarchs have already bought control of the courts.
-
@mynameistillian @mhoye You're not giving them anything they don't already have. What you're doing is proving you're an adult. That's it.
@FlashMobOfOne @mynameistillian @mhoye if they already have it they can use it, if they don't they can pry it out of my cold dead hands
-
@violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias
That's the list of regulations you need to adhere to, as motor vehicle manufacturer, to make sure that the thing you build is safe for people to drive, at what speeds and under what conditions.
By carefully restricting vehicle manufacture to prevent specific kinds of harm under specific sets of conditions, the people _in_ those vehicles are free _from_ all sorts of risks, and more free _to_ travel in them safely.
330 pages of oppression!
-
@violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias
That's the list of regulations you need to adhere to, as motor vehicle manufacturer, to make sure that the thing you build is safe for people to drive, at what speeds and under what conditions.
By carefully restricting vehicle manufacture to prevent specific kinds of harm under specific sets of conditions, the people _in_ those vehicles are free _from_ all sorts of risks, and more free _to_ travel in them safely.
330 pages of oppression!
@mhoye @txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias
Enacted by a hard-fought effort from folks like Ralph Nader, yes. In the 60s and 70s.
That's an example everybody loves citing, because it worked. And the stuff that fixed the hole in the ozone. Thing is, nothing anywhere near as comprehensive or effective has been acheived in other industries since, because the corporations vowed to never let it happen like that again.
So. In a world where the regulating mechanisms have already been CAPTURED by immense money, how exactly do you expect regulation to be achieved now?
Tons of awful things are already thoroughly against all kinds of laws, but continue happening anyway. The "international rules-based order" is proving to be a hollow fantasy. Genocides continue unabated, no justice in sight.
Laws are the pieces of paper that formalize power structures with official documentation-- but they're just paper. Labels. Where exactly is the power going to come from, to make billionaires pay taxes or make genocidal war profiteers stop killing people?
How do you regulate the internet without simply lining up to put your own leash into the hands of these technofascist monsters whose corporate feudalism is turning the whole idea of national sovereignty into an obsolete joke?
How does that actually work??
-
@txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias @mhoye
Stepping away from the libertarian ideals of the internet is just an indirect way of saying you want the internet to step towards authoritarian ideals.
And you can take that evil shit and shove it. Have you not noticed what authoritarians do with power yet??
Are you aware that all of our social security information and most of our medical records have already been compromised? You REALLY want to fork over more personal information to some cloud where hackers and data brokers and fascist regimes can just play around with it? Once that data is getting hacked and spoofed, they'll just keep demanding more invasive data to prove ID-- right down to our retinal scans and fucking DNA.
None of this shit is about protecting kids, no matter what pretty claims they put on the tin. NONE OF IT.
There are so many really good things in the world that are neither libertarian nor authoritarian.
-
@mhoye not defending the age verification at all or any of that shit...
But at least they designed in Europe the upcoming EUDI Wallet (digital wallet) they now want to use for that in a way that you can for example just disclose "yup, I'm over 18" not more of your personal information -
@mhoye @txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias
Enacted by a hard-fought effort from folks like Ralph Nader, yes. In the 60s and 70s.
That's an example everybody loves citing, because it worked. And the stuff that fixed the hole in the ozone. Thing is, nothing anywhere near as comprehensive or effective has been acheived in other industries since, because the corporations vowed to never let it happen like that again.
So. In a world where the regulating mechanisms have already been CAPTURED by immense money, how exactly do you expect regulation to be achieved now?
Tons of awful things are already thoroughly against all kinds of laws, but continue happening anyway. The "international rules-based order" is proving to be a hollow fantasy. Genocides continue unabated, no justice in sight.
Laws are the pieces of paper that formalize power structures with official documentation-- but they're just paper. Labels. Where exactly is the power going to come from, to make billionaires pay taxes or make genocidal war profiteers stop killing people?
How do you regulate the internet without simply lining up to put your own leash into the hands of these technofascist monsters whose corporate feudalism is turning the whole idea of national sovereignty into an obsolete joke?
How does that actually work??
"How do you regulate the internet
[...] How does that actually work??These are excellent questions, exactly the kind we should be asking IMO. Some ideas: ban oligarch social platforms completely. Ban foreign platforms when they go over a certain market share. Ban platforms that don't adhere to local law.
I thought this was a niche idea but it turns out that, according to recent polls, some of these are very popular positions here in Europe — including age restrictions.
-
@violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino @mhoye "Libertarian ideals" aren't the answer here. We absolutely need to regulate the billionaire platforms, either out of existence or at least into behaving half decently. What we must reject is regulating ordinary ppl into surveillance hell as a faux substitute for that.
100% agree here.
-
"How do you regulate the internet
[...] How does that actually work??These are excellent questions, exactly the kind we should be asking IMO. Some ideas: ban oligarch social platforms completely. Ban foreign platforms when they go over a certain market share. Ban platforms that don't adhere to local law.
I thought this was a niche idea but it turns out that, according to recent polls, some of these are very popular positions here in Europe — including age restrictions.
@txtx @violetmadder "Age restrictions" are absolutely non negotiably wrong. They're a mislabeling for "papers please" which is a fundamentally fascist position. Polls are shit designed to manipulate public opinion and manufacture consensus for what the powerful want.
-
@txtx @violetmadder "Age restrictions" are absolutely non negotiably wrong. They're a mislabeling for "papers please" which is a fundamentally fascist position. Polls are shit designed to manipulate public opinion and manufacture consensus for what the powerful want.
@dalias If a police officer comes to my home and demands a search, and I respond with "papers please" — is my position fascist?
-
@dalias If a police officer comes to my home and demands a search, and I respond with "papers please" — is my position fascist?
@txtx @violetmadder No, because that's not what it means and I think you know that.
-
@txtx @violetmadder No, because that's not what it means and I think you know that.
@dalias I agree! It is different, and that difference is the core of what we're talking about here IMO.
The Internet is infested with government agents propagandists bots and criminals posing as real people. I'm saying no, I don't want them.
-
@dalias I agree! It is different, and that difference is the core of what we're talking about here IMO.
The Internet is infested with government agents propagandists bots and criminals posing as real people. I'm saying no, I don't want them.
@txtx @violetmadder They're not going to stop their own propaganda bots with "age verification"/internet passports. They're going to stop the people fighting them. This should not be hard to understand.
-
@mhoye there are other technical ways to do only and just age veification that have been so carefully avoided that at this point it's fair to say it's entirely on purpose and that the goal is "papers, please".
-
@txtx @violetmadder They're not going to stop their own propaganda bots with "age verification"/internet passports. They're going to stop the people fighting them. This should not be hard to understand.
@txtx @violetmadder "Papers please" specifically means the principle that people don't have free movement or participation in society without having to show their identity documents to an authority. It does not have any relationship with its polar opposite, "come back with a warrant".
