Once you realize it’s not “age verification”, but actually “identity verification”, then it’s easy to understand that the real goal is “papers, please” for the entire internet.
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@mhoye Unpopular opinion:
Identity verification isn't so unattractive in 2026 — social media is destroying democracies via anonymous armies of bot people steered by aggressive foreign actors like Putin and Musk.
The libertarian model that the Internet was built on is failing societies.
@txtx @mhoye if those democracies were working, people wouldn't just start believing what a random person on the internet says. it didn't use to be like this and it doesn't have to now, but it's affected by the same social issues as everything else. whereas the earlier internet contributed a lot to social progress and there's no telling that things wouldn't be even worse without it. also, if an open internet was fundamentally a threat to democracy, dictatorships wouldn't be working so hard to destroy it, and it wouldn't be people opposed to democracy as a concept pushing for tighter government control. -
@mhoye Unpopular opinion:
Identity verification isn't so unattractive in 2026 — social media is destroying democracies via anonymous armies of bot people steered by aggressive foreign actors like Putin and Musk.
The libertarian model that the Internet was built on is failing societies.
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Once you realize it’s not “age verification”, but actually “identity verification”, then it’s easy to understand that the real goal is “papers, please” for the entire internet.
@mhoye I am sure other reply guys also told you in Europe with a e-wallet you can prove your age without uploading anything. https://edri.org/our-work/showing-your-id-to-get-online-might-become-a-reality-a-closer-look-at-the-eus-new-age-verification-app/
still doesnt make age verification for websites a good idea
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@txtx@mastodon.social @mhoye@cosocial.ca 1. why not just ban nazism and far-right parties instead of locking down social media and enabling nazi tech firms like palantir to implement more surveillance? 2. that is just not what happened especially pre-ww2, the united states didn't crack down on fascists until they entered the war, the french had a strong far-right movement, the USSR heavily collaborated with the nazis right up until the invasion. britain was the only major combatant which lacked a robust pre-ww2 far-right movement and that was more down to luck than anything else, the USSR was the only country that banned naziism but that was more of a side effect of them banning anything that wasn't stalinist orthodoxy.
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@passenger @txtx are you a monochromatic horse in real life
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@DiogoConstantino So? What's wrong with trying harder? Is laziness an excuse?
I want more fellow tech people to step away from the libertarian ideals of the current Internet, and start coming up with ways to help save democracy from aggressive states and their disinformation campaigns.
@txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias @mhoye
Stepping away from the libertarian ideals of the internet is just an indirect way of saying you want the internet to step towards authoritarian ideals.
And you can take that evil shit and shove it. Have you not noticed what authoritarians do with power yet??
Are you aware that all of our social security information and most of our medical records have already been compromised? You REALLY want to fork over more personal information to some cloud where hackers and data brokers and fascist regimes can just play around with it? Once that data is getting hacked and spoofed, they'll just keep demanding more invasive data to prove ID-- right down to our retinal scans and fucking DNA.
None of this shit is about protecting kids, no matter what pretty claims they put on the tin. NONE OF IT.
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@txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias @mhoye
Stepping away from the libertarian ideals of the internet is just an indirect way of saying you want the internet to step towards authoritarian ideals.
And you can take that evil shit and shove it. Have you not noticed what authoritarians do with power yet??
Are you aware that all of our social security information and most of our medical records have already been compromised? You REALLY want to fork over more personal information to some cloud where hackers and data brokers and fascist regimes can just play around with it? Once that data is getting hacked and spoofed, they'll just keep demanding more invasive data to prove ID-- right down to our retinal scans and fucking DNA.
None of this shit is about protecting kids, no matter what pretty claims they put on the tin. NONE OF IT.
@violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias
You might want to read this: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._1038/FullText.html
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@passenger And the rise of far right parties can be directly attributed to the rise in anonymous bot armies paid and organized by foreign dictators.
I say: tackle the problem at the core.
The core?
The core is cruelty. The core is the enclosure of the commons; the backbone of how capitalism oppresses millions. All rooted in abuse culture and kyriarchy. The cultural premise that some people are superior and thus entitled to control those they deem inferior through coercion. All of this flows from that.
Troll farms are just ONE tool in the toolbox of corruption.
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@passenger I seriously question if following around fascists/racists has done any good for society in the last decade or so.
On the contrary it seems like a bad addiction, and it's only getting worse because we're just injecting more of it into our daily lives. Why do we need to listen to them? Are we their lackeys?
You are seemingly unaware of the huge amounts of organizing that have occurred on social media for positive reasons. I'll grant that social media run by corporate predators is of course warped and untrustworthy, but that is not the inherent nature of social media or the internet as a whole.
Likewise, I'm willing to bet you have NO CLUE what antifascist action even is or how it works, much less what it has accomplished. Even under regimes that are seriously unfriendly to antifa in general, their work has led to the criminal convictions of some truly despicable rings of bastards.
You're jumping to a lot of conclusions in your own brain, so fully confident in your smartness that your blind spots are yawning chasms.
Less self-referential speculating, moar reading.
https://www.simonandschuster.co.uk/books/To-Catch-a-Fascist/Christopher-Mathias/9781668034767
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@txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias @mhoye
Stepping away from the libertarian ideals of the internet is just an indirect way of saying you want the internet to step towards authoritarian ideals.
And you can take that evil shit and shove it. Have you not noticed what authoritarians do with power yet??
Are you aware that all of our social security information and most of our medical records have already been compromised? You REALLY want to fork over more personal information to some cloud where hackers and data brokers and fascist regimes can just play around with it? Once that data is getting hacked and spoofed, they'll just keep demanding more invasive data to prove ID-- right down to our retinal scans and fucking DNA.
None of this shit is about protecting kids, no matter what pretty claims they put on the tin. NONE OF IT.
@violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino @mhoye "Libertarian ideals" aren't the answer here. We absolutely need to regulate the billionaire platforms, either out of existence or at least into behaving half decently. What we must reject is regulating ordinary ppl into surveillance hell as a faux substitute for that.
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@violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias
You might want to read this: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._1038/FullText.html
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@violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino @mhoye "Libertarian ideals" aren't the answer here. We absolutely need to regulate the billionaire platforms, either out of existence or at least into behaving half decently. What we must reject is regulating ordinary ppl into surveillance hell as a faux substitute for that.
@dalias @violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino
Libertarian just means you're not the boss of me and selfish now. We've done that experiment and now we have the evidence. The libertarian ethos and its loudest adherents hasn't protected us from totalitarianism at all. It and they have endorsed and supported it.
Regulation isn't oppression. The fact that you don't need to worry what's in the water when you turn the tap doesn't give you less freedom, it gives you far more.
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@dalias @violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino
Libertarian just means you're not the boss of me and selfish now. We've done that experiment and now we have the evidence. The libertarian ethos and its loudest adherents hasn't protected us from totalitarianism at all. It and they have endorsed and supported it.
Regulation isn't oppression. The fact that you don't need to worry what's in the water when you turn the tap doesn't give you less freedom, it gives you far more.
@mhoye @dalias @txtx @DiogoConstantino
I am talking about small l libertarianism here, not American Libertarian party crap.
And I truly don't understand how the hell anyone thinks regulation is going to magically fix the fact that oligarchs have already bought control of the courts.
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@mynameistillian @mhoye You're not giving them anything they don't already have. What you're doing is proving you're an adult. That's it.
@FlashMobOfOne @mynameistillian @mhoye if they already have it they can use it, if they don't they can pry it out of my cold dead hands
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@violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias
That's the list of regulations you need to adhere to, as motor vehicle manufacturer, to make sure that the thing you build is safe for people to drive, at what speeds and under what conditions.
By carefully restricting vehicle manufacture to prevent specific kinds of harm under specific sets of conditions, the people _in_ those vehicles are free _from_ all sorts of risks, and more free _to_ travel in them safely.
330 pages of oppression!
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@violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias
That's the list of regulations you need to adhere to, as motor vehicle manufacturer, to make sure that the thing you build is safe for people to drive, at what speeds and under what conditions.
By carefully restricting vehicle manufacture to prevent specific kinds of harm under specific sets of conditions, the people _in_ those vehicles are free _from_ all sorts of risks, and more free _to_ travel in them safely.
330 pages of oppression!
@mhoye @txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias
Enacted by a hard-fought effort from folks like Ralph Nader, yes. In the 60s and 70s.
That's an example everybody loves citing, because it worked. And the stuff that fixed the hole in the ozone. Thing is, nothing anywhere near as comprehensive or effective has been acheived in other industries since, because the corporations vowed to never let it happen like that again.
So. In a world where the regulating mechanisms have already been CAPTURED by immense money, how exactly do you expect regulation to be achieved now?
Tons of awful things are already thoroughly against all kinds of laws, but continue happening anyway. The "international rules-based order" is proving to be a hollow fantasy. Genocides continue unabated, no justice in sight.
Laws are the pieces of paper that formalize power structures with official documentation-- but they're just paper. Labels. Where exactly is the power going to come from, to make billionaires pay taxes or make genocidal war profiteers stop killing people?
How do you regulate the internet without simply lining up to put your own leash into the hands of these technofascist monsters whose corporate feudalism is turning the whole idea of national sovereignty into an obsolete joke?
How does that actually work??
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@txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias @mhoye
Stepping away from the libertarian ideals of the internet is just an indirect way of saying you want the internet to step towards authoritarian ideals.
And you can take that evil shit and shove it. Have you not noticed what authoritarians do with power yet??
Are you aware that all of our social security information and most of our medical records have already been compromised? You REALLY want to fork over more personal information to some cloud where hackers and data brokers and fascist regimes can just play around with it? Once that data is getting hacked and spoofed, they'll just keep demanding more invasive data to prove ID-- right down to our retinal scans and fucking DNA.
None of this shit is about protecting kids, no matter what pretty claims they put on the tin. NONE OF IT.
There are so many really good things in the world that are neither libertarian nor authoritarian.
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@mhoye not defending the age verification at all or any of that shit...
But at least they designed in Europe the upcoming EUDI Wallet (digital wallet) they now want to use for that in a way that you can for example just disclose "yup, I'm over 18" not more of your personal information -
@mhoye @txtx @DiogoConstantino @dalias
Enacted by a hard-fought effort from folks like Ralph Nader, yes. In the 60s and 70s.
That's an example everybody loves citing, because it worked. And the stuff that fixed the hole in the ozone. Thing is, nothing anywhere near as comprehensive or effective has been acheived in other industries since, because the corporations vowed to never let it happen like that again.
So. In a world where the regulating mechanisms have already been CAPTURED by immense money, how exactly do you expect regulation to be achieved now?
Tons of awful things are already thoroughly against all kinds of laws, but continue happening anyway. The "international rules-based order" is proving to be a hollow fantasy. Genocides continue unabated, no justice in sight.
Laws are the pieces of paper that formalize power structures with official documentation-- but they're just paper. Labels. Where exactly is the power going to come from, to make billionaires pay taxes or make genocidal war profiteers stop killing people?
How do you regulate the internet without simply lining up to put your own leash into the hands of these technofascist monsters whose corporate feudalism is turning the whole idea of national sovereignty into an obsolete joke?
How does that actually work??
"How do you regulate the internet
[...] How does that actually work??These are excellent questions, exactly the kind we should be asking IMO. Some ideas: ban oligarch social platforms completely. Ban foreign platforms when they go over a certain market share. Ban platforms that don't adhere to local law.
I thought this was a niche idea but it turns out that, according to recent polls, some of these are very popular positions here in Europe — including age restrictions.
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@violetmadder @txtx @DiogoConstantino @mhoye "Libertarian ideals" aren't the answer here. We absolutely need to regulate the billionaire platforms, either out of existence or at least into behaving half decently. What we must reject is regulating ordinary ppl into surveillance hell as a faux substitute for that.
100% agree here.
