From this side of the Atlantic (the UK side) it looks like the US is slipping towards civil war, goaded on by a President wanting to invoke the Insurrection Act as a way of militarising his political power.
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@alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6 Amanda's Mild Takes on YouTube is very clear on this. https://youtube.com/shorts/cIHkd0YutTA
She points out in another one that even when Hawaii had martial law after Pearl Harbour, elections still happened.@Flisty @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6 I worry less that elections will be cancelled than that Republicans will create enough chaos in enough states and Mike Johnson will use that as an excuse to refuse swearing in the new Democratic House members and keep the GOP in control.
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@alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6 "lawfully" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Whether or not it is lawful, who's going to step up to stop him at this point? If there has not so far been a flash point to general civil war (I'd contend that that state exists in Minneapolis) then this might be a major candidate but it would require the General Staff to stand by their oaths and Hegseth has been culling the officers who would be likely to do that. Or else the public would have to.
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
I see in this thread a lot of touching belief in variants of the phrase "Trump can’t do XYZ lawfully".
Sadly, the last 12 months is the story of Trump doing whatever he wants, regardless of law or constitution. Tariffs, removing trans rights, invasion, genocide, murder at sea, demolishing the East Wing, snatch squads, torture: all "can't legally do" but all being done.
These legal theories no longer describe actual power in #USA.
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@ChrisMayLA6 From a certain historical perspective, the US Civil War never really ended, it went underground. The attitudes were cultivated and channeled into institutional racism and Jim Crow laws.
The 20th century "Confederates" (fascists) never forgave the US government for Civil Rights and equality laws. The 21st century Confederates are trying to unmake the human rights advances in order to institute a white Christian theocracy. (Blame John Calvin.)
All empires eventually fall, as hubris takes its toll.
@c_merriweather @ChrisMayLA6
It never goes away, it gets beaten, goes under ground, licks its wounds and waits for society to forget. Unfortunately, human nature is what it is.
There are, and always will persist, the dark things in our nature. You don't beat them for good, there is no 'never again.' There is only eternal vigilance, and the price for complacency is tyranny.
For the failings of our complacent society, regardless of the guilty few, we face that now. -
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
I see in this thread a lot of touching belief in variants of the phrase "Trump can’t do XYZ lawfully".
Sadly, the last 12 months is the story of Trump doing whatever he wants, regardless of law or constitution. Tariffs, removing trans rights, invasion, genocide, murder at sea, demolishing the East Wing, snatch squads, torture: all "can't legally do" but all being done.
These legal theories no longer describe actual power in #USA.
@2legged @Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog
Sadly I agree; a reliance in the rule of law in the US in the moment is more about hope than experience
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@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
I see in this thread a lot of touching belief in variants of the phrase "Trump can’t do XYZ lawfully".
Sadly, the last 12 months is the story of Trump doing whatever he wants, regardless of law or constitution. Tariffs, removing trans rights, invasion, genocide, murder at sea, demolishing the East Wing, snatch squads, torture: all "can't legally do" but all being done.
These legal theories no longer describe actual power in #USA.
@2legged
Before he took office in 2025, various people commented that Congress could act as a stop on his shitnanigans, to them I responded that out corrupt SCOTUS had given him the authority to override Congress... And he has done so.People commented that the courts would block him, to which I responded that the courts have no enforcement tools unless he gives it to them... And he has not done so, further he simply ignores them.
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
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@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
I see in this thread a lot of touching belief in variants of the phrase "Trump can’t do XYZ lawfully".
Sadly, the last 12 months is the story of Trump doing whatever he wants, regardless of law or constitution. Tariffs, removing trans rights, invasion, genocide, murder at sea, demolishing the East Wing, snatch squads, torture: all "can't legally do" but all being done.
These legal theories no longer describe actual power in #USA.
@2legged @Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
Sadly, any law or constitution is only applicable as far as the people with the power to ignore them choose to pretend they apply. -
@c_merriweather @ChrisMayLA6
It never goes away, it gets beaten, goes under ground, licks its wounds and waits for society to forget. Unfortunately, human nature is what it is.
There are, and always will persist, the dark things in our nature. You don't beat them for good, there is no 'never again.' There is only eternal vigilance, and the price for complacency is tyranny.
For the failings of our complacent society, regardless of the guilty few, we face that now.@MostlyTato
A building is only as strong as its foundation. The fact is, that the US was built on a cracked and cobbled-together foundation of religious fanaticism, enslavement and genocide. No amount of goodwill, good deeds, or ignoring it can fix that foundation. It was faulty from the beginning, and the flaws will be the cause of its demise. -
@2legged
Before he took office in 2025, various people commented that Congress could act as a stop on his shitnanigans, to them I responded that out corrupt SCOTUS had given him the authority to override Congress... And he has done so.People commented that the courts would block him, to which I responded that the courts have no enforcement tools unless he gives it to them... And he has not done so, further he simply ignores them.
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
@nikatjef It's not just the corrupt SCOTUS. The MAGA-controlled Congress has rarely even tried to stop Trump.
The separation of powers doctrine never envisaged one sociopath capturing all threw branches of government.
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
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@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
I see in this thread a lot of touching belief in variants of the phrase "Trump can’t do XYZ lawfully".
Sadly, the last 12 months is the story of Trump doing whatever he wants, regardless of law or constitution. Tariffs, removing trans rights, invasion, genocide, murder at sea, demolishing the East Wing, snatch squads, torture: all "can't legally do" but all being done.
These legal theories no longer describe actual power in #USA.
@2legged @Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
In this new world there is only one law and that's the law of the jungle. As long as a bully is permitted to reign, then his power is absolute.
Law is consensual or it is worthless. -
@nikatjef It's not just the corrupt SCOTUS. The MAGA-controlled Congress has rarely even tried to stop Trump.
The separation of powers doctrine never envisaged one sociopath capturing all threw branches of government.
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
@2legged
While correct, you are missing the point. SCOTUS has given him authority to override Congress, specifically in regards to the power of the purse and Congress themselves gave up the power of war under Bush... As such they have no mechanism to stop him, even if they wanted to, which I believe they will want after the midterms.If we even have midterms that is...
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
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@ChrisMayLA6 From a certain historical perspective, the US Civil War never really ended, it went underground. The attitudes were cultivated and channeled into institutional racism and Jim Crow laws.
The 20th century "Confederates" (fascists) never forgave the US government for Civil Rights and equality laws. The 21st century Confederates are trying to unmake the human rights advances in order to institute a white Christian theocracy. (Blame John Calvin.)
All empires eventually fall, as hubris takes its toll.
@c_merriweather @ChrisMayLA6 the mistake is when it does fall, we fail to completely eradicate the problem and we run around in circles and wonder why history seems to repeat
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@2legged
While correct, you are missing the point. SCOTUS has given him authority to override Congress, specifically in regards to the power of the purse and Congress themselves gave up the power of war under Bush... As such they have no mechanism to stop him, even if they wanted to, which I believe they will want after the midterms.If we even have midterms that is...
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
@nikatjef With respect, I think that you are missing my point that both SCOTUS and Congress are failing to restrain Trump.
Despite the corrupt #SCOTUS, Congress is not neutered. Congress still retains huge power to tighten law, and ultimately to impeach. Trump's authoritarianism could be stopped by either Congress or SCOTUS.
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
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@nikatjef With respect, I think that you are missing my point that both SCOTUS and Congress are failing to restrain Trump.
Despite the corrupt #SCOTUS, Congress is not neutered. Congress still retains huge power to tighten law, and ultimately to impeach. Trump's authoritarianism could be stopped by either Congress or SCOTUS.
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
@2legged
No, I get that and agree, but they (Congress and Judicial) no longer have any tools to stop him, even if they wanted to.Impeachment only works if he and his cabinet respect the impeachment, which SCOTUS has ruled he doesn't have to do.
Judicial branch can only enforce their rulings if he and his cabinet lets the DOJ do enforce them.
Congress could impeach him tomorrow, he would rant and rail, but otherwise ignore it
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
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From this side of the Atlantic (the UK side) it looks like the US is slipping towards civil war, goaded on by a President wanting to invoke the Insurrection Act as a way of militarising his political power.
I'd be interested if followers of these posts in the US think the same or whether the media's distorting mirror is deceiving us about the gravity of the situation...
(Civil) analysis & contextual answers boosted & thanks in advance for sharing.
Yes and no.
The regime has threatened large scale violence and military rule many times before, but this is a regime that talks big. Militarization of civilian federal law enforcement services will escalate, but I do not see armed conflict between federal and state power in our near future.
For it to happen, the US state governments will have to, at some point, put their money where their mouth is with regards to resistance. For now they've been content to wage a war of words and court papers.
When the regime's puppet Republican supreme court finally issues a ruling that enables full federal military rule over the country, only then will we know if our opposition/state level leaders have the stones to defy it with force.
Otherwise it's just waiting for them to try and overturn another election.
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@2legged
No, I get that and agree, but they (Congress and Judicial) no longer have any tools to stop him, even if they wanted to.Impeachment only works if he and his cabinet respect the impeachment, which SCOTUS has ruled he doesn't have to do.
Judicial branch can only enforce their rulings if he and his cabinet lets the DOJ do enforce them.
Congress could impeach him tomorrow, he would rant and rail, but otherwise ignore it
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
@nikatjef What have I missed? Which SCOTUS ruling(s) have removed or restricted the power of Congress to impeach and remove from office?
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
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@2legged @Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
Sadly, any law or constitution is only applicable as far as the people with the power to ignore them choose to pretend they apply.@Stevenheywood @2legged @Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
This is the truth. People have to stop pretending, and to realize that between nations, there can only be force or the threat of force.
Should they so choose, there can of course be cooperation, but at the end of the day, there is a reason we call them sovereign nations.
Become a political realist, and gain the benefit of not being particularly surprised at how Trump is acting or what he is doing.
Add to that, the realization that he is a business man, and you will no longer be surprised by anything he does, and you will easily be able to predict what he will do.
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Yes and no.
The regime has threatened large scale violence and military rule many times before, but this is a regime that talks big. Militarization of civilian federal law enforcement services will escalate, but I do not see armed conflict between federal and state power in our near future.
For it to happen, the US state governments will have to, at some point, put their money where their mouth is with regards to resistance. For now they've been content to wage a war of words and court papers.
When the regime's puppet Republican supreme court finally issues a ruling that enables full federal military rule over the country, only then will we know if our opposition/state level leaders have the stones to defy it with force.
Otherwise it's just waiting for them to try and overturn another election.
There are a few triggers sitting on the mantelpiece right now, and most of them pivot around the regime refusing to seat a state's duly elected representatives.
A military revolt against illegal orders / domestic deployments would be interesting too, but we don't have a good model for that in living history in the US. Vietnam-era fragging is something only remembered by a generation who are well removed from the current volunteer force.
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@nikatjef What have I missed? Which SCOTUS ruling(s) have removed or restricted the power of Congress to impeach and remove from office?
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
@2legged
SCOTUS ruled that he can basically do whatever he wants as long as he is doing it within the scope of what he "believes" he is his job.But more importantly, Chump controls DOJ and DOD which Congress has to use to enforce their impeachment as their only other enforcement arm is the Sergeant At Arms
@Mschatelaine @alex_p_roe @EvelineSulman @Mattrog @ChrisMayLA6
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From this side of the Atlantic (the UK side) it looks like the US is slipping towards civil war, goaded on by a President wanting to invoke the Insurrection Act as a way of militarising his political power.
I'd be interested if followers of these posts in the US think the same or whether the media's distorting mirror is deceiving us about the gravity of the situation...
(Civil) analysis & contextual answers boosted & thanks in advance for sharing.
Into the unknown both hope and fear reside.
As a 3rd generation American, LGBTQ, person of color living in the very rural part of the likely bluest state, I don't experience the US as on the precipice of Civil War. However, I am not so sanguine that we won't end up there, anything is possible.
The US is a massive nation. I grew up on the farthest West state, Hawai'i, the newest state in the Union, and now live in one of the original and oldest states - Massachusetts. There are MAGA here, but they are outnumbered. Massachusetts is very blue. But because we are so geographically isolated, to survive, our local culture is a balance of self-sufficiency and interdependence both Blue and Red. Armed conflict would be an irrevocable breach of rural local identity. And because we are rural, lots of folks hunt and have guns, even Democrats. So if this devolves into armed conflict rural Blue New England won't go without a fight.
There are lots of serial flashpoints, and those get media, which is what you see overseas. But know this is Trump's standard - one flashpoint at a time, so far. Trump does not appear to have the troops, organization, discipline or ability to manage a national civil war. And no other fascist ambitious current MAGA leader has the engendered cult loyalty and charisma to trigger and win a Civil War.
I actually believe the opposite about Trump's power - I believe he peaked on July 4 2025 with his substantial budget bill destruction of significant parts of the US (w Congressional MAGA complicity) and his greatest win has actually triggered his downhill slide and he's is angry, desperate, in denial, fuminating and at his most chaotic dangerous recklessness as he tries to erase the inevitable fate that he is seeing awaits him. But time, gravity, and history are now his inescapable enemies. He will get worse, and his minions worsen, but he's no longer inevitable. You can see it in the those polls on his cratering popularity, and on the MAGA who are abandoning their Congressional seats. Corporate media here and over there are both trailing, not leading, indicators. They missed the trends that brought Trump to power, they are missing the trends that signal his end.
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Into the unknown both hope and fear reside.
As a 3rd generation American, LGBTQ, person of color living in the very rural part of the likely bluest state, I don't experience the US as on the precipice of Civil War. However, I am not so sanguine that we won't end up there, anything is possible.
The US is a massive nation. I grew up on the farthest West state, Hawai'i, the newest state in the Union, and now live in one of the original and oldest states - Massachusetts. There are MAGA here, but they are outnumbered. Massachusetts is very blue. But because we are so geographically isolated, to survive, our local culture is a balance of self-sufficiency and interdependence both Blue and Red. Armed conflict would be an irrevocable breach of rural local identity. And because we are rural, lots of folks hunt and have guns, even Democrats. So if this devolves into armed conflict rural Blue New England won't go without a fight.
There are lots of serial flashpoints, and those get media, which is what you see overseas. But know this is Trump's standard - one flashpoint at a time, so far. Trump does not appear to have the troops, organization, discipline or ability to manage a national civil war. And no other fascist ambitious current MAGA leader has the engendered cult loyalty and charisma to trigger and win a Civil War.
I actually believe the opposite about Trump's power - I believe he peaked on July 4 2025 with his substantial budget bill destruction of significant parts of the US (w Congressional MAGA complicity) and his greatest win has actually triggered his downhill slide and he's is angry, desperate, in denial, fuminating and at his most chaotic dangerous recklessness as he tries to erase the inevitable fate that he is seeing awaits him. But time, gravity, and history are now his inescapable enemies. He will get worse, and his minions worsen, but he's no longer inevitable. You can see it in the those polls on his cratering popularity, and on the MAGA who are abandoning their Congressional seats. Corporate media here and over there are both trailing, not leading, indicators. They missed the trends that brought Trump to power, they are missing the trends that signal his end.
@pattykimura
Compelling case you make, glad I read it.
@ChrisMayLA6
