"I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure.
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"I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure. Here's the stack I landed on, what was harder than expected, and what you still can't avoid."
https://www.coinerella.com/made-in-eu-it-was-harder-than-i-thought/
We need more stories like this being shared in the open. You can criticise some parts of the decisions here, but that's not the point. Someone tried and shared. That's the point.
@jwildeboer very much depends how simple your system is and the external dependencies. I find that running my own email easier and less fiddling around than outsourcing that, self-hosting plain git is trivial, limiting use of AI to dedicated models in niche use cases rather than massive LLM means it's easier to host.
But then, I've had decades of application hosting and ISP experience so know the pitfalls. -
@jwildeboer for AI not trying Mistral? It's EU right?
@edthix @jwildeboer OOP explicity says they want Claude. Some people have a personal lock-in for a specific AI already. This is to be expected, and explains why Copilot and Kiro are being pushed on Azure and AWS customers with extreme force: if you can get people used to the flavor of your LLM, they might never want to leave anymore, because they'll talk to their LLM more than to any human probably.
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@jwildeboer very much depends how simple your system is and the external dependencies. I find that running my own email easier and less fiddling around than outsourcing that, self-hosting plain git is trivial, limiting use of AI to dedicated models in niche use cases rather than massive LLM means it's easier to host.
But then, I've had decades of application hosting and ISP experience so know the pitfalls.@jwildeboer also, regarding keeping things simple. if your business model doesn't depend on third party ad placement on your pages or analytics then it makes GDPR a breeze, no cookie banners needed. That in itself is a huge sales conversion benefit if you don't need to interrupt the flow with unnecessary interruptions. #ux #gdpr
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"I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure. Here's the stack I landed on, what was harder than expected, and what you still can't avoid."
https://www.coinerella.com/made-in-eu-it-was-harder-than-i-thought/
We need more stories like this being shared in the open. You can criticise some parts of the decisions here, but that's not the point. Someone tried and shared. That's the point.
@jwildeboer Great … but why? I also have a startup (used to be an IT guy for 30 years) not thinking about doing this myself. I want to work on my startup … not my IT environment
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@jwildeboer Great … but why? I also have a startup (used to be an IT guy for 30 years) not thinking about doing this myself. I want to work on my startup … not my IT environment
@theodorus_75 Fine with me. I guess you simply are not the target audience for this article :))
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@jwildeboer very much depends how simple your system is and the external dependencies. I find that running my own email easier and less fiddling around than outsourcing that, self-hosting plain git is trivial, limiting use of AI to dedicated models in niche use cases rather than massive LLM means it's easier to host.
But then, I've had decades of application hosting and ISP experience so know the pitfalls.@zymurgic how do you make sure that gmail and other big providers accept your emails?
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@zymurgic how do you make sure that gmail and other big providers accept your emails?
@ArneBab @jwildeboer
1. Get your outbound IP address ranges from a reputable supplier, ie not lowest-common-denominator mass-market retail ISP. L2TP tunnel them to where your system is hosted from a reputable supplier if you have to.
2. Matching Forward/Reverse DNS.
3. DMARC, DKIM, SPF.
4. Never send anything unsolicited to anyone ever.
5. Only ever email existing customers about updates to their current services or their current orders.
6. Use a domain name that isn't new with good reputation. -
@zymurgic how do you make sure that gmail and other big providers accept your emails?
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@ArneBab @jwildeboer
1. Get your outbound IP address ranges from a reputable supplier, ie not lowest-common-denominator mass-market retail ISP. L2TP tunnel them to where your system is hosted from a reputable supplier if you have to.
2. Matching Forward/Reverse DNS.
3. DMARC, DKIM, SPF.
4. Never send anything unsolicited to anyone ever.
5. Only ever email existing customers about updates to their current services or their current orders.
6. Use a domain name that isn't new with good reputation.@zymurgic thank you!
I’m asking because I know that my old university had a lot of problems with that (sending a newsletter once a year about the yearly conference to a few thousand subscribers and making sure to actually reach them all).
@jwildeboer -
ooh, I like your text selection anchor! How long has that been a thing?
I've never seen that before in a URL! -
@catsith @jwildeboer taxes? lack of volume discounts? not really sure tbh
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ooh, I like your text selection anchor! How long has that been a thing?
I've never seen that before in a URL! -
"I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure. Here's the stack I landed on, what was harder than expected, and what you still can't avoid."
https://www.coinerella.com/made-in-eu-it-was-harder-than-i-thought/
We need more stories like this being shared in the open. You can criticise some parts of the decisions here, but that's not the point. Someone tried and shared. That's the point.
@jwildeboer How can one be sure that a European hosting company is not a big tech reseller who puts your data on a server in the US?
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@jwildeboer How can one be sure that a European hosting company is not a big tech reseller who puts your data on a server in the US?
@QuantumAspect It's a process called due diligence
These requirements should be part of the selection process. Serious vendors will answer such questions truthfully. -
@jwildeboer interesting view but was harder meant or more complex more apt? Perhaps, as it is new learning, it being challenging would be expected anyhow.
As more people favour European solutions, the documenation and supoort forums should improve no end.
Thanks for the post.
@EF @jwildeboer Totally see your point. When something involves new learning, a certain level of complexity is almost expected. Trying to shift infrastructure choices is never going to feel frictionless at first.
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@jwildeboer interesting view but was harder meant or more complex more apt? Perhaps, as it is new learning, it being challenging would be expected anyhow.
As more people favour European solutions, the documenation and supoort forums should improve no end.
Thanks for the post.
@EF @jwildeboer I also agree that as more people adopt European solutions, documentation and support ecosystems should mature quickly. Community momentum can change things fast.
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@jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
I sometimes wonder whether, as a US-based person, it might not still make sense to move my vanity-domains to a non-US alternative to Linode (for my needs, a hyperscaler's pricing structure just never makes sense). The idea first popped up when Linode got bought by Akmai, but was really only ever notional. With the fuckery around Trump 2.0, it was a smidge more than just notional ...but still a very low-priority brain-bug.@ferricoxide @jwildeboer feel the post was aimed at people to 'buy local' but for those in the US, perhaps the message is look for local alternatives to Big Tech rather than buy European, although you'd be most welcome too.
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"I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure. Here's the stack I landed on, what was harder than expected, and what you still can't avoid."
https://www.coinerella.com/made-in-eu-it-was-harder-than-i-thought/
We need more stories like this being shared in the open. You can criticise some parts of the decisions here, but that's not the point. Someone tried and shared. That's the point.
@jwildeboer good article
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"I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure. Here's the stack I landed on, what was harder than expected, and what you still can't avoid."
https://www.coinerella.com/made-in-eu-it-was-harder-than-i-thought/
We need more stories like this being shared in the open. You can criticise some parts of the decisions here, but that's not the point. Someone tried and shared. That's the point.
Absolutely floored at how little self-hosting is in this mix.
My employers self host basically everything
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@jwildeboer @ArneBab @zymurgic can confirm, this works surprisingly well and there are tools to help you with setting it up, debugging and monitoring it.
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M mindtunes@troet.cafe shared this topic
