Can’t wait to find out how this upgrade enhances my dishwasher’s performance.
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Vernetzte Systeme sind ja ganz nett - wenn es darum geht den Spüler dann laufen zu lassen, wenn Energie verfügbar ist.
Allerdings benötigt das Teil dafür eigentlich keinen "Internet" Zugang sondern nur eine Schnittstelle, die sich sicher gestalten lässt.
Seufz. DIese AI-isierung und zwanghafte Vernetzung übers www von Haushaltsgeräten ist echt die Pest.Eigentlich musst du dafür nur die Netzspannung messen.
Dummes beispiel:
250V => Jetzt laufen.
200V => Jetzt NICHT laufen. -
@dan
- "My dishwasher is on the internet!"
- "Why is on the internet?"
- "To download software updates!"
- "Why does it need software updates?"
- "To fix security vulnerabilities!"
- "Why would it have security vulnerabilities?"
- "Because it's on the internet!"@dan@discuss.systems @someone_else@infosec.exchange
and I hate it -
@someone_else @dan Both my cousin and sister have a Bosch series 4 dishwasher. Cousin's is 2-3 years old, and has no WiFi connectivity, sister's is about half a year old, has WiFi, and requires you to use the app to use some features that are available through buttons on the older model, because it's so much easier to put the dishes in, find the phone, unlock it, run the app, wait for it to load, scroll down to the dishwasher, tap it, then select the program instead of pressing 2-5 buttons.
@jernej__s @someone_else @dan Wrong attitude. If you're being modern then your phone is always in your hand, all 842 apps that you might need are always running, it's remembering where you put the dishwasher that's the hard bit.
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@dan
- "My dishwasher is on the internet!"
- "Why is on the internet?"
- "To download software updates!"
- "Why does it need software updates?"
- "To fix security vulnerabilities!"
- "Why would it have security vulnerabilities?"
- "Because it's on the internet!"@someone_else @dan I think the primary reason my vacuum cleaner has bluetooth is exactly to update its bluetooth firmware.
(It also has an app that can notify you when the container is full. But the container is TRANSPARENT and it's also RIGHT THERE next to the handle you're holding it with, so you could also, you know, LOOK AT IT to know if it's full?)
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Can’t wait to find out how this upgrade enhances my dishwasher’s performance.
At least it’s not adding new AI features, I guess…
@dan I cut my Bosch off the Wi-Fi, guess what, it still works
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Can’t wait to find out how this upgrade enhances my dishwasher’s performance.
At least it’s not adding new AI features, I guess…
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@aiuto @someone_else @dan LOL your dishwasher will enjoy that
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@dan
- "My dishwasher is on the internet!"
- "Why is on the internet?"
- "To download software updates!"
- "Why does it need software updates?"
- "To fix security vulnerabilities!"
- "Why would it have security vulnerabilities?"
- "Because it's on the internet!"@someone_else @dan I just got a new dishwasher. Certain (not often used, thank goodness) cleaning cycles are only available via "the app". I made a conscious decision to forego access to these so I would not need to put the thing on the network. But it's very annoying that this tradeoff even needed to be considered. Bosch 800 series, in case anyone cares.
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@dan
- "My dishwasher is on the internet!"
- "Why is on the internet?"
- "To download software updates!"
- "Why does it need software updates?"
- "To fix security vulnerabilities!"
- "Why would it have security vulnerabilities?"
- "Because it's on the internet!"Home appliances are on the internet as part of a planned obsolescence scheme.
They can be bricked remotely to force consumers to buy new appliances.
They are also vulnerable to being hijacked for botnet mischief, surveillance, and kill switches
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@GrahamDowns @someone_else @dan Be realistic. When are you actually micromanaging that stuff so precisely? I'd wager, never. Instead, you have an automation set up somewhere that does this automatically for you.
There is no actual technical reason why that "somewhere" would have to be in the "cloud". It should be in your own home, on your own local network, under your control. And if you really do want to check in on anything from outside, use a VPN to connect to your home network.@Silberwoelfin @GrahamDowns @someone_else @dan I micro my crappy dishwasher and washer daily because eclectricity is substantially cheaper starting 23:00 and its honestly a pita to stay awake till 23:00 everyday I have to turn one of these on.
I sure wish they had Bluetooth or somecrap but I agree I rather have nothing then cloud somethibg compared to local.
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And, what a surprise, that app can display adverts, track your location, watch your network and WiFi connections, take pictures and record audio. Because of course it can. How could you possibly set the dishwasher without all those juicy permissions?
https://reports.exodus-privacy.eu.org/en/reports/com.bosch.sh.ui.android/latest/#permissions
@CppGuy @jernej__s @someone_else @dan Interesting to know Bosch has gone down that drain.
I feel better about skipping them for my most recent purchase (though I chose to do so because the parts were too pricey here)
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Can’t wait to find out how this upgrade enhances my dishwasher’s performance.
At least it’s not adding new AI features, I guess…
@dan "medieval dynasty", a game, has an npc farmer complaining;
"I need to grow cabbages, so i can make fertiliser, to grow more cabbages, to make more fertiliser. *sighs*"
This reminds me of that. -
@Silberwoelfin @GrahamDowns @someone_else @dan I micro my crappy dishwasher and washer daily because eclectricity is substantially cheaper starting 23:00 and its honestly a pita to stay awake till 23:00 everyday I have to turn one of these on.
I sure wish they had Bluetooth or somecrap but I agree I rather have nothing then cloud somethibg compared to local.
@dantalion @Silberwoelfin @someone_else @dan we don't have cheap power during particular hours; our price is the same regardless. We do have solar, though, as I said, so we try to run the heavy appliances only when the sun is shining.
The things we do to save money, eh? *sigh*
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Can’t wait to find out how this upgrade enhances my dishwasher’s performance.
At least it’s not adding new AI features, I guess…
When reading all this I am considering to scan the local ads and look for a second piece of my 10 y old dishwasher which communicates only via a few LED and store it in the basement as backup.
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@dan
- "My dishwasher is on the internet!"
- "Why is on the internet?"
- "To download software updates!"
- "Why does it need software updates?"
- "To fix security vulnerabilities!"
- "Why would it have security vulnerabilities?"
- "Because it's on the internet!" -
@dan
- "My dishwasher is on the internet!"
- "Why is on the internet?"
- "To download software updates!"
- "Why does it need software updates?"
- "To fix security vulnerabilities!"
- "Why would it have security vulnerabilities?"
- "Because it's on the internet!"@someone_else @dan I am more than happy to wash dishes by hand if I can't get a dishwasher that only works if it's hooked to the internet.
️ -
@someone_else @dan Both my cousin and sister have a Bosch series 4 dishwasher. Cousin's is 2-3 years old, and has no WiFi connectivity, sister's is about half a year old, has WiFi, and requires you to use the app to use some features that are available through buttons on the older model, because it's so much easier to put the dishes in, find the phone, unlock it, run the app, wait for it to load, scroll down to the dishwasher, tap it, then select the program instead of pressing 2-5 buttons.
@jernej__s 470MB to press a button. My phone has room for about two and a half buttons. I would have to delete them and most of my music to successfully do an OS upgrade.
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Can’t wait to find out how this upgrade enhances my dishwasher’s performance.
At least it’s not adding new AI features, I guess…
@dan narrator's voice: it was for AI features.
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@dan
- "My dishwasher is on the internet!"
- "Why is on the internet?"
- "To download software updates!"
- "Why does it need software updates?"
- "To fix security vulnerabilities!"
- "Why would it have security vulnerabilities?"
- "Because it's on the internet!"@someone_else Bingo! @dan
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@dan
- "My dishwasher is on the internet!"
- "Why is on the internet?"
- "To download software updates!"
- "Why does it need software updates?"
- "To fix security vulnerabilities!"
- "Why would it have security vulnerabilities?"
- "Because it's on the internet!"@someone_else @dan Your dishes are like malware: you need security update on your dishwasher to disinfect your dishes against common dirt.
