Is your Mastodon timeline too empty or too full?

@klu9 @FediTips
I can understand not wanting to see posts in languages you don't know, although as a language nerd myself, I actually love the diversity and find myself thinking things like "I know some German, a little Dutch, and some Old English, I bet I can tease out the general meaning of this news headline in Swedish. Let me give it a shot!"

@FediTips

Yes, I've set the "Filter" languages, not just "Interface" language.
(Preferences > Other > Public Timelines > Filter languages)

And many of the posts in undesired languages (in my case, 95% German) have been quite long, hundreds of characters.

I wonder if following a hashtag trumps/bypasses the language filter.

#Mastodon #MastodonHelp

@halyihev @FediTips

At first, I actually approved loads of Romance languages (even ones I don't know like Aragonese & Galician) just for the hell of it Even latine, lingua franca nova & Interlingua (my favourite "if only everyone would just use this!" auxlang).

But as my timeline got more & more full, I trimmed them back so I might stand a chance at getting through it.

#Mastodon #MastodonHelp

@klu9 @FediTips

The language filter acts on the language the post is set to rather than the language it's actually written in. People posting in multiple languages may have their default language set to English, which the filter won't catch no matter what language the post is written in.

@klu9

Hmm... in that case, I'm not sure what else could be done directly there

One workaround might be to use the "filters" feature to try to filter out posts containing German word(s) that appear in the posts you don't want to see ( https://fedi.tips/filtering-your-timeline-to-hide-posts-on-mastodon ).

About the long posts, some interfaces and apps shorten them automatically with a "read more" link. Are you seeing the posts full length?

@klu9

I've been puzzled by the translation (or lack of it) issue also

Here the key may be "Public timelines"

As I understand, this will not translate anything in your Home feed

Which is where I want auto-translation the most

cc @FediTips

@gotofritz

If you read the guide I linked to, it addresses exactly this discussion of definitions.

What you say is not what most people mean by "algorithm". I'm using the word in its common meaning of an opaque mechanism that messes around with your timeline.

@AdrianRiskin @klu9

Yup, this is the problem, people are using the wrong settings on their posts.

There is an automatic language detector but it isn't reliable enough on short posts to have it override the user. It does suggest to them when it thinks they've got it wrong though.

@FinchHaven @klu9

Many servers have a translation service in your Home feed, and if your server has it you'll see "translate" below posts in other languages.

However, the admin has to pay the translation service provider a monthly fee to have such a service. Not all admins can afford this, so they don't activate the translation feature. (The reason translations are "free" on commercial platforms is they're paying for the translations by selling your data etc).

@FinchHaven @FediTips

I actually don't want auto-translation. I've tested the machine translation feature with languages I know & often bits are not right.

It's a handy feature, but I don't trust it 100%.

@gotofritz

it's not disinformation, it's just everyday language vs technical language. There are lots of words which have slightly different meanings in different contexts.

For example, if someone uses the word "computer" they will probably mean a laptop or a desktop. They will not mean a smartphone or a tablet even though both of these are technically computers as well.

"ironically just for engagement"

Absolutely not. I am trying to use ordinary language to make this place easier to use.

@FediTips

Re filters, thanks, I might try that workaround. Hopefully, it'll save me muting a few hundred more accounts.

Re display of long posts in undesired languages, my timeline has had both: long posts shown complete & long with Read More.

@klu9

Weird! Is it doing the "read more" when it goes over a certain length, or is it just random?

If you don't mind me asking, what are you using to view Mastodon?

@FediTips

Mainly web interface in Zen Browser (Firefox mod).

Occasionally, Android phone app, previously Moshidon (where I'd also see posts in German etc), now trying out both official Mastodon app & Tusky.

@FediTips

I understand this

My instance use LibreTranslate

My issue is remote instances that throw an httpd 404 or httpd 503 at any attempt to translate a post from one of their posters, even when I go to their profile feed and try to translate directly from their home instance, or where posts in my Home feed don't even offer Translate at all

It's really an inexcusable weak point

I remember on Github (where I follow Mastodon development) where quite some time ago Gargron himself blew off the entire auto-translate issue as too marginal to bother addressing programmatically in the distribution itself

His attitude was basically "Meh... they should all be able to read European (meaning German) anyway..."

So here we are: Mastodon as a Tower of Babel

cc @klu9

@FediTips

Re Read more, maybe it depends on source platform (Mastodon with high limit, Sharkey, Piefed etc.)

@FediTips @gotofritz

I have to disagree with you, Fedi...

The most common definition of an algorithm is: a finite, step-by-step sequence of precise instructions for solving a problem or accomplishing a specific task.

You use a very small subset of "most people" and take that as your definition of most people and then couple that to what you think most people mean when using the word.

Are you spreading misinformation?

It depends: if you are deliberately creating or spreading it in order to deceive people, to influence opinion or cause harm, the answer would be yes.

If that is not the case, then at the very least, your information is incomplete, even in the context of Mastodon.

If your intention is to convince people about how and why Mastodon is better than other platforms, you have to be precise.

@FinchHaven

Are you attempting to use translate on a different server's website?

@BlameDutchie @gotofritz

"The most common definition of an algorithm is: a finite, step-by-step sequence of precise instructions"

I'm not talking about a technical dictionary definition, I mean the way non-technical people actually use that word in the real world.

They'll typically say something like "the algorithm is showing me stuff" or "the algorithm has hidden my post".

My accounts and websites are largely aimed at non-technical people, so I try to use non-technical meanings and words.

@FediTips

I am attemting to translate using the Translate text at the bottom of given post

Again my instance uses LibreTranslate

Sometimes I'll click through to the post on the origin instance and try there

Sometimes (when I have a lot of time to waste and I'm in a better mood) I'll open up the instances

/public/local

and see

1) if they have any posts in anything other than their native language, and

2) do they seem to offer any translation at all

And here's the core point:

how much effort should I be expected to expand, to translate a foreign / European/ German post just to read something that ends up being extremely mundane

And how much finite screen space am I expected to give to posts / posters I'll never be able to translate and read?

I've already Muted and Blocked two in the last 15 minutes...