This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
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@su_liam @ersatzmaus @FediThing @futurebird The individual level changes won't move the needle, it's a trap , a frame of mind to keep us from collective action and systemic changes.
@su_liam @ersatzmaus @FediThing @futurebird @dacig Depends on the problem.
Real problems absolutely require a systemic solution, but "I feel uncomfortable because my neighbours are different from me" is absolutely solvable with self-work.
Because the only problem there is in your own head.
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@Iwillyeah @futurebird “No. I’m just noting down the facts. The ‘horrible person’ part was what you took from those facts. Maybe there is a functioning conscience in there. You should pay more attention to that.”
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What disturbs me is the total lack of urgency and confidence in these “reporters” as soon as Ben simply describes what they are doing “so you are reporting this person so they will be removed from the country” they put all of the responsibility on him (one caller says “isn’t that what we are doing?)
People scoff at insects following pheromone trails but the average ant puts more thought into her next action than some of these people. “The government says report these people better do it”
@futurebird well, that's probably how fasiscm worked in Germany and my country, Austria, some 80 years ago.
Humans can be that cruel. -
This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@futurebird
I don't know who coined the phrase "banality of evil" but it really sums up this encounter.
It is truly shocking. -
This looks AI af.
what? ben palmer is a comedian that's been doing stuff like this for ages:
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@edgeofeurope @futurebird Actually the people who ran the Nazi camps were not ordinary people, they were hardcore followers. And they didn't just obeyed "superior orders", they made the decisions they rightfully assumed were required the whole nazi project. Not to say ordinary people played no part, of course. But what Arendt called "banality of evil" is quite misleading.
@ratel @edgeofeurope @futurebird The point is that there is a deceptive, exploitative aura to fascists and the bunch, and it's easy to fall for it if you don't have a supportive community. They exploit the lonely, the ones scared of changes in the world, the ones in crisis, and create an easy enemy that is supposedly at fault for their problems - Jews, Immigrants, Communists
I'll be completely honest, during my teens, I almost fell into their trap, was it not for a few really nice people pulling me out of that mess. I still regret a lot of what I've done back then, the hateful words I spoke.
That's the warning - don't let them fall into the grasp of fascists, because they'll exploit their weaknesses to turn them into monsters.
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@su_liam @ersatzmaus @FediThing @futurebird @dacig Depends on the problem.
Real problems absolutely require a systemic solution, but "I feel uncomfortable because my neighbours are different from me" is absolutely solvable with self-work.
Because the only problem there is in your own head.
@StryderNotavi @su_liam @ersatzmaus @FediThing @futurebird Mmmh. Fighting against the US as a 250 year old nefarious colonial, white supremacist project is not trivial. Any casual observer of USs history can see a pattern of systemic dehumanisation, and the use of difference as a reason to commit abuses. It's so deeply ingrained that I am very sceptical of self improvement methods being effective against it. I might be wrong.
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@futurebird it reminds me of stories about repressions in the USSR especially during the Stalin time.
There's a famous question about it: "Who has written all this millions of denunciations?".
This sounds so good in terms of this ICE story...Same in Nazi occupied France.
Racists and antisemites coming to the fore, because, hey, it's anonymous and a good way to settle old scores.
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@su_liam @ersatzmaus @FediThing @futurebird @dacig Depends on the problem.
Real problems absolutely require a systemic solution, but "I feel uncomfortable because my neighbours are different from me" is absolutely solvable with self-work.
Because the only problem there is in your own head.
@StryderNotavi @ersatzmaus @FediThing @futurebird @dacig While changing those individual feelings is about as useful as recycling your plastic packaging(and, more importantly, taking it on as your personal failing)those emotions do serve as an anchor by which these systemic issues avoid change.
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This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@futurebird Oh god, I hope this is fake
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@MisuseCase @futurebird my daughter a grade school teacher has heard teachers talk this way as well
@spreadthetruth @MisuseCase @futurebird I don't want to steal-man this horrible behavior, but I do wonder about the under-funding of public schools and teachers and how much it contributes via a scarcity / 'taking up resources' angle. Like, is this evidence how austerity breeds hate or somesuch, I guess
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@futurebird There's this effect, donno the right terminology in English : you feel better off if your neighbor has bad luck. Seems like that is the case here
@MaSch @futurebird in the US, we just use the german word "schadenfreude," because it's such a perfect word. one word that replaces an entire phrase -- i love german!
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@spreadthetruth @MisuseCase @futurebird I don't want to steal-man this horrible behavior, but I do wonder about the under-funding of public schools and teachers and how much it contributes via a scarcity / 'taking up resources' angle. Like, is this evidence how austerity breeds hate or somesuch, I guess
@aeischeid @spreadthetruth @MisuseCase
I teach at a school with a bunch of grants and things and some of the brightest most neurotic kids in the city HOWEVER I have all kinds of teacher friends at all kinds of schools. Schools without nearly enough staff or supplies and lunches that someone should build a little fence around and hang up a "Superfund" sign.
I do not know any teachers like this.
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@aeischeid @spreadthetruth @MisuseCase
I teach at a school with a bunch of grants and things and some of the brightest most neurotic kids in the city HOWEVER I have all kinds of teacher friends at all kinds of schools. Schools without nearly enough staff or supplies and lunches that someone should build a little fence around and hang up a "Superfund" sign.
I do not know any teachers like this.
@aeischeid @spreadthetruth @MisuseCase
The worst thing I ever heard a teacher say about students was this veteran NYC public school teacher in the Bronx who said "well you know they are from the crack baby generation that's why they can't concentrate"
No. They can't concentrate because they are 6th graders in a class with 32 students.
That is too many sixth graders. Have you met one? I have. Under 20 ALWAYS.
I yelled at him and he walked it back.
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@futurebird
Most of my sympathy goes to the kid & parents. If the teacher reports to a real hotline, at best, that family has a very unnessicary amount of explaining to do. At worse, their taken from their home.But I have some sympathy for the teacher who has been influenced enough to inflict either on the family. Convinced to shed her sympathy. But to be clear, I want, and believe, she can regain that sympathy. But might not if she is singled out like this. And prob double down.
What about that kid? How do you think he's doing?
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@StryderNotavi @ersatzmaus @FediThing @futurebird @dacig While changing those individual feelings is about as useful as recycling your plastic packaging(and, more importantly, taking it on as your personal failing)those emotions do serve as an anchor by which these systemic issues avoid change.
@su_liam @StryderNotavi @ersatzmaus @FediThing @futurebird O can agree with that.
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This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@futurebird what do you say in the face of such cruelty when simple words on the internet won’t stop it?
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@specialmonkeytom @futurebird Ben Palmer has been doing stuff like this to real MAGAts for a while. It's unlikely he would pivot to fiction for something like this
@vees @futurebird I stand corrected and sad
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@futurebird
By I might have the least sympathy for this video maker. This has a good chance of being fraud. But is also bias enfocing human slop. Cops, but for liberals' enjoyment. To get progressive clicks. I get he wants to expose this. But there are better ways.I get that shit is fucked. And this can feel cathartic, in the short term. But I ask if it is more harmful in the long term. And if there is better catharsis.
IDK he didn't tell us who she was or put her address up there. That would be kind of irresponsible since people are mad.
That leaves anyone mad about this to try to think about if they know someone like her.
And to maybe reflect on if they might have done anything similar ever.
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This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@futurebird this guy does great work.
