Mozilla right now.
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@Zekovski
No they didn't roll back their TOS change: -
@davidrevoy The fact that they're already sawing. Yep, that's the Mozilla I know and tolerate
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@julienw
Seeing how the AI crap already in Firefox is enabled by default and has to be disabled in about:config, no, it does not reduce my concern.
Start with opt-in for the already integrated AI crap and an easy way to disable it.
@pmiossec @Kampfdiestel @Gynux @davidrevoy@CyberPunker
No cloud-based AI is enabled by default as far as I understood. Yes there are menu options but until they're configured nothing happens. And even when configured that's not working automatically but following a specific user action.A global switch is in the making too, the plan is to ship it in February.
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@davidrevoy I'm not sure so far. ML has valid applications, and so far what Mozilla has brought to the table seems very reasonable to me. Most important thing for me is that everything is local and privacy friendly. And the features they have are very reasonable: An alt-text generation model makes a lot of sense for people to whom alt-texts matter. And local translation of websites also sounds like a really nice feature. As far as I see such features will make the web more accessible with better privacy.
For me the most important things are:
1. ML should be local and not send arbitrary data to shady third party services
2. ML should be build to only affect performance when you actually need it
3. ML should provide specific tools, not general purpose blackboxesAlso
4. ML should be trained in a responisble way, which means:
1. Responsible source of training data
2. Resource use of training should be justified by the benefit of the functionalityI remember the time when ML was mosty an exciting University thing, where results were shared, and not some big corporation BS. I am not against going back in that direction.
But you know, digiKam has been using public models for facial recognition and matching for years now. And I don't think anything bad came from it.
I am currently in the position of saying: Wait and see what mozilla does. And if it turns out the wrong way, there are forks. That's the beauty of open source.
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@davidrevoy you can check web browsers privacy at https://privacytests.org/ @privacytests
but there is nothing yet about AI. -
@CyberPunker
No cloud-based AI is enabled by default as far as I understood. Yes there are menu options but until they're configured nothing happens. And even when configured that's not working automatically but following a specific user action.A global switch is in the making too, the plan is to ship it in February.
@julienw @CyberPunker @pmiossec @Kampfdiestel @davidrevoy
Hello !
I don't know if it can be done that easily, and I seriously doubt that it would be anyway, but what about implementing some kind of temporary welcome screen/popup in the next version with a poll about adding AI feature in FF ? That way you would have a clear view about what your user base thinks. If 75% or more is against it, then maybe avoiding such a waste of resources would be a good idea ? -
@Linux @davidrevoy Vivaldi is Chrome in disguise. Meanwhile, @Waterfox says NO to AI and it's not a Chrome based browser.
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@julienw @CyberPunker @pmiossec @Kampfdiestel @davidrevoy
Hello !
I don't know if it can be done that easily, and I seriously doubt that it would be anyway, but what about implementing some kind of temporary welcome screen/popup in the next version with a poll about adding AI feature in FF ? That way you would have a clear view about what your user base thinks. If 75% or more is against it, then maybe avoiding such a waste of resources would be a good idea ?There are people at Mozilla doing user research, I think they're doing a great job. I don't know if they planned such a survey. I believe there's such a thing inside Firefox, that can ask questions to a subset of the users, but I'm not so sure.
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@davidrevoy oh lol, it's the cyber parrot from that short wizard comic set
(checks) Of course, same artist
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@davidrevoy I already moved to LibreWolf on my desktop, but I'm still looking for an alternative for Firefox on my phone.
@dregntael I'm using Ironfox on my phone, seems good.
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@davidrevoy I'm not sure so far. ML has valid applications, and so far what Mozilla has brought to the table seems very reasonable to me. Most important thing for me is that everything is local and privacy friendly. And the features they have are very reasonable: An alt-text generation model makes a lot of sense for people to whom alt-texts matter. And local translation of websites also sounds like a really nice feature. As far as I see such features will make the web more accessible with better privacy.
For me the most important things are:
1. ML should be local and not send arbitrary data to shady third party services
2. ML should be build to only affect performance when you actually need it
3. ML should provide specific tools, not general purpose blackboxesAlso
4. ML should be trained in a responisble way, which means:
1. Responsible source of training data
2. Resource use of training should be justified by the benefit of the functionalityI remember the time when ML was mosty an exciting University thing, where results were shared, and not some big corporation BS. I am not against going back in that direction.
But you know, digiKam has been using public models for facial recognition and matching for years now. And I don't think anything bad came from it.
I am currently in the position of saying: Wait and see what mozilla does. And if it turns out the wrong way, there are forks. That's the beauty of open source.
@lazy Plenty of good ML research going on at Unis. LLMs and Stable Diffusion are just a microscopic slice of ML and there is a lot of cool stuff you can do with the part that do not require you to steal all intellectual property in the world.
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What i would really, really wish from Mozilla is: Make a thing that does one thing and do it right, in this case: Being a browser.
Yes, i know you can disable the AI crap or any other nuisances, but it would be really nice if they would focus on their main product.
CC: @davidrevoy@framapiaf.org@kptn_offensichtlich @ocramius @davidrevoy they could spin off a Mozilla Research Lab if they've got this much AI scamcoin to burn, let the browser be a browser, make extensions for everything else.
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@kptn_offensichtlich @ocramius @davidrevoy they could spin off a Mozilla Research Lab if they've got this much AI scamcoin to burn, let the browser be a browser, make extensions for everything else.
@patterfloof @kptn_offensichtlich @davidrevoy agreed: FF users know when to use extensions
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@davidrevoy oh no Avian Intelligence
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@davidrevoy
You sir are the wisest of illustrators..... Insta-meme! -
@lazy Plenty of good ML research going on at Unis. LLMs and Stable Diffusion are just a microscopic slice of ML and there is a lot of cool stuff you can do with the part that do not require you to steal all intellectual property in the world.
@j_bertolotti @lazy I totally agree, and although I often take shortcuts for the sake of efficient communication, my position on LLMs is nuanced.
What worries me the most is that 'AI browsers' have a larger scope by definition. If Firefox wants to join that group, it would also mean getting a built-in assistant that can browse the web automatically, fill in forms and purchase items on the user's behalf.
I know users will be able to turn it off, but I see it as a source of security breach.
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@davidrevoy this is so sad
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@davidrevoy you can check web browsers privacy at https://privacytests.org/ @privacytests
but there is nothing yet about AI.@didier @davidrevoy @privacytests I wish Brave wasn't run by compete spanners
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@kptn_offensichtlich @ocramius @davidrevoy they could spin off a Mozilla Research Lab if they've got this much AI scamcoin to burn, let the browser be a browser, make extensions for everything else.
@kptn_offensichtlich @ocramius @davidrevoy and there"s a default home screen they can put links on for "recommended" extensions
