@log Googles
Learns
@Bel_tamtu

@bedhead oh yes, I'm very much contemplating the same things; the larger social contexts in which we live, how all our identities are ultimately in relation to the communities we situate ourselves within.

I like to say my transition happened from the inside out; from my body to my presentation to my environment to my relationships to my role within society. But maybe I'm describing there what fell within my awareness, and subconsciously it has always been a holistic project.
@valentine

@bedhead I am so happy for you! ️ My own transition has similarly felt like stepping into a new me, and it has been so joyful, so transformational.
@valentine

@bedhead fascinating! I see in this how hormonal changes can be a powerful anchor for personal transformation. Your experience of society growing up left you with a constant anxiety about social interaction, and when your emotional landscape changed due to blockers you were able to leave this anxiety in the past and step into a new way of being. Have I understood that correctly?
@valentine

@BernieDoesIt observing my niblings, it's amazing what little social sponges they are. At that age it's like the full weight of human brainpower is going into analysing social norms, behaviours, allegiances, communications, and relationalities, and finding their place within them.

The book I just finished asserted that the primary drive of the infant is to communicate, to connect to the human social context, and that seems on point.

@log it's such a tough one, isn't it? Because as well as the realities of child-rearing, kids do need to start socialising with their peers at some point. There's no easy answers to societal problems.
@Bel_tamtu

@pauamma

@ginny you seem to be just wanting to pick a fight here, with a concern-trolling tone and some really silly arguments— "no kids no opinion" and "technically everyone has testosterone therefore haha gotcha. Google will indeed help bring up the actual scientific facts, which is that testosterone is at the same extremely low level for male and female kids until the onset of puberty, at which point male bodies will increasingly begin to produce the hormone in significant amounts. Did you try that yourself, or just boldly assume your correctness?

Anyway, not actually interested in your answer, because arguing on the internet with contrarians is a really dull, time-wasting, and stressful pastime which I have long given up, sorry.

@valentine pondering this, I remember how transition unlocked my extroversion and my empathy— my desire to communicate— but due to being stuck on a waitlist for HRT, this shift truly began pre-estrogen.

Estrogen then enhanced this, made it feel more permanent and effortless, but I credit this to a growing comfort with my body and emotions.

Because yeah, I definitely I felt some emotional effects of E— the fabled ease of crying most obvious amongst those— but then the interpretation and outcome of those emotions seemed to pass inevitably into the realm of socially constructed reality. "Aw, she's having a lot of feelings, and would benefit from talking about them", etc.

What sort of changes did you notice specifically, if you don't mind saying?

@Ailbhe like cycling thru jam
@Steve

@Ailbhe I've not read either, but it really does seem like we can't help but keep reinventing Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus, huh?

@what yes, the confirmation bias is huge

@faithisleaping I think you have hit on the root of it, which explains why the transphobia. A large chunk of both cis men and cis women have accepted a biological explanation for male violence, to lessen accountability, and for this theory to work trans women have to share in cis male awfulness. The fact that, rather inconveniently, we're actually rather lovely, only infuriates them.

But I do think that to some degree their consequent frustrations at us are being projected onto kids.

@abucci I do believe my brother when he says his daughter was less difficult at the same age. But, y'know, all kids are different; some do need a bit more help.
@datarama

@damonology I remember thinking as he was explaining testosterone to me "has he, uh, just forgotten that I went thru an androgenic puberty just a year or two after him?" There's an edge of ewphoria there. ‍️

@leguinian_utopia it is dehumanising, absolutely.

@clarablackink ok, let's focus on your last comment— the frustration of not being able to communicate what you want.

Now what you said after that: that boys get rewarded for being aggressive, or at least their aggression is more tolerated, less addressed by their caregivers.

Think of what girls get instead— including what I got growing up, being read as "girly"— a lecture on proper behaviour, how they need to be a Good Girl. We model the behaviour we expect to see from them: either talking out our anger, or repressing it.

Now have the bravery to throw away your initial "testosterone affects communication" hypothesis. There's simply no biological basis to imagine such a mechanism, and as you see it's simply not needed. Socialisation is a powerful force, and society raises boys and girls as it expects them to act as men and women.

@bright_helpings true, bodies are complicated and everyone's is different

@pendell tempting as it is, I don't want to drop my brother in it for his words. He's part of the parenting culture he's embedded in, and genuinely seems to have been duped by bad science and political/cultural agendas. (Gender agendas?)

@datarama you are technically correct, the best sort of correct! /ref

Yeah, testosterone isn't completely absent at that age, just extremely low compared to the levels you'll see going into puberty.