@josh @dcousineau oh god I didn't even look at the client code

@outsidecontext Same. It’s the fastest way to resolve it, and that means it’s the best, right?

@darkcat09 Conduit started with Sled, and then moved to a KV abstraction that let them add RocksDB and SQLite support. Conduwuit then removed everything but RocksDB, which is what Tuwunel and Conduwuit are forked from

Oh look, they’re trying to cover up what they did too

https://github.com/nkuntz1934/matrix-workers/commit/2d3969dd5e795caa3641d0e237e2b52ca0502463

Archive link for posterity:

https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://github.com/nkuntz1934/matrix-workers/commit/2d3969dd5e795caa3641d0e237e2b52ca0502463

@agowa338 They’re trying to clean up their tracks https://github.com/nkuntz1934/matrix-workers/commit/2d3969dd5e795caa3641d0e237e2b52ca0502463

I'm also giving a talk about some of the actual work that goes into building this software in a few days at FOSDEM, if you want to learn more:

https://tech.lgbt/@JadedBlueEyes/115956965835059690

For those of you that don't know, I develop https://continuwuity.org - a Rust based Matrix homeserver that actually works, and that you can run on a Raspberry Pi, rather than someone else's centralized cloud infrastructure

@poitzorg per-request pricing is just not the right model for that

@poitzorg Even only counting valid events, a normal matrix server is still consistently serving millions of requests a month!

The pricing comparisons are stupid, by the way, too - a bunch of us in the matrix chatrooms got out how many HTTP requests per day we were serving and the per-request cost of Workers would be more expensive than dedicated VPSs - not even counting CPU time or storage costs!

@barometz Post quantum openness

Honestly this is almost insulting to me, as someone who has spent a nontrivial amount of effort developing a Matrix homeserver, with how low effort it is. And what’s the point? Marketing? I’m not gonna be trusting anything Cloudflare after this.

Oh and to top things off, they make trivially false claims in their post. Tuwunel and its predecessors do not and have never used Postgres or Redis.

Rather than implementing the critical state resolution algorithm that's the core of Matrix, they just directly insert the latest state into the database. That'll instantly lead to diverging views of the room and incompatibility with every other implementation - and it's also a massive security hole.

This is a core part of the protocol, that's not exactly simple (https://spec.matrix.org/v1.17/server-server-api/#authorization-rules)

They just have TODO comments, and happily accept anything, even if it's blatantly forged

Let me just pick a few examples from the code, because this is so bad

Cloudflare just published a vibe coded blog post claiming they implemented Matrix on cloudflare workers. They didn't, their post and README is AI generated and the code doesn't do any of the core parts of matrix that make it secure and interoperable. Instead it's littered with 'TODO: Check authorisation' and similar

https://blog.cloudflare.com/serverless-matrix-homeserver-workers/