Time for a #discord alternatives thread, for no particular reason.
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@mdiluz for now, look at the draupnir documentation, especially the protections list and concepts, like policy lists. It begins here
https://the-draupnir-project.github.io/draupnir-documentation/moderator/setting-up-and-configuring
About power levels and join rules, that stuff is mostly learned by doing, I dk of any well put together resource for specifically this, but as I said, those are kinda hacky and that's more of a last resort thing, use powerlevels and join rules responsibly, but most of those mechanisms should be performed with your moderation bot of choice. If you want certain features or need help with something you want to do but don't know how, feel free to go in the community, the draupnir room is public and available even in the matrix.org room directory, but I can provide a link if you can't find it on the site or in the directory@esoteric_programmer love it, thanks. Will absolutely be getting to know draupnir
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@mdiluz @philipdrobar it's really only a few bucks for a "lifetime" and it can be purchased directly without involvement of e.g. the Google App Store. It's also available as direct download or on F-Droid. That is quite something in that space and sure keeps all the damn spam/scam bots out.
It was also sold [again] this year: https://comitiscapital.com/news/comitis-capital-announces-the-acquisition-of-threema
Jury is still out but since when does this mean any good for users.
@bekopharm @philipdrobar I guess I should clarify. For me I'm totally fine paying for something (I've now paid for Threema to try it out!) but I want communities to be open and have minimal barriers of entry.
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@bekopharm @philipdrobar I guess I should clarify. For me I'm totally fine paying for something (I've now paid for Threema to try it out!) but I want communities to be open and have minimal barriers of entry.
@mdiluz good point. It's a rather good alternative to anything else tied to a phone number though. And to this date I got zero spam over this, thanks to that entry fee I guess.
Indeed not really for the scope of the discussion.
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@mdiluz Delta Chat is another option.
@KarlHeinzHasliP thanks! I came across it but put it under the Signal/Telegram/Threema bucket in that it's not really a community building platform
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@mdiluz good point. It's a rather good alternative to anything else tied to a phone number though. And to this date I got zero spam over this, thanks to that entry fee I guess.
Indeed not really for the scope of the discussion.
@mdiluz shower though: YT is doing the same btw. More slowly but definitely also moving in this direction.
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First, Rocket Chat.
* Released
* Paid after 50 users (nb: a "community" edition exists too)
* OSS
* Self-hostable
* No E2E (nb: has it manually for DMs)
* Supports calls
* No web client (nb: does have a web client)(nb: feedback in the replies points to rocket.chat perhaps being more viable than I thought)
This one had so much promise, but from what I can tell is enshittifying in a similar vein to Discord. Not being free beyond 50 users even self-hosted is weird to me for an OSS project.
@mdiluz
Rocket Chat's limitation on number of users only applies if you sign up to their "free plan". If you don't (and this is fairly hard to navigate, my biggest gripe with rocketchat) you can have as many users you like at the cost of not having some features that I've never missed over the last 6 years. -
@mdiluz
Rocket Chat's limitation on number of users only applies if you sign up to their "free plan". If you don't (and this is fairly hard to navigate, my biggest gripe with rocketchat) you can have as many users you like at the cost of not having some features that I've never missed over the last 6 years.@maswan oh interesting - I didn't discover this when looking into it - what're the limitations?
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@maswan oh interesting - I didn't discover this when looking into it - what're the limitations?
@mdiluz The "plan" is listed as "Community" if you don't sign up to any of the plans. There is a limit to the number of push notifications (but it is fairly high unless you have a culture where you like phones beeping for every message), and then there is some junk like "premium omnichannel" (whatever that is), "premium apps", etc.
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@mdiluz The "plan" is listed as "Community" if you don't sign up to any of the plans. There is a limit to the number of push notifications (but it is fairly high unless you have a culture where you like phones beeping for every message), and then there is some junk like "premium omnichannel" (whatever that is), "premium apps", etc.
@mdiluz From memory the limit on notifications is 10k/month.
Also I clicked around a bit, and it is very corporate features that are missing, like "engagement dashboard" and "device management".
So my biggest gripe is how hard they work at hiding this mode of operation, and a little bit of worry about what the future might bring in this regard.
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@mdiluz From memory the limit on notifications is 10k/month.
Also I clicked around a bit, and it is very corporate features that are missing, like "engagement dashboard" and "device management".
So my biggest gripe is how hard they work at hiding this mode of operation, and a little bit of worry about what the future might bring in this regard.
@maswan I'm kind of surprised a fork hasn't popped up tbh. Anyway yeah thanks for the info?
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First, Rocket Chat.
* Released
* Paid after 50 users (nb: a "community" edition exists too)
* OSS
* Self-hostable
* No E2E (nb: has it manually for DMs)
* Supports calls
* No web client (nb: does have a web client)(nb: feedback in the replies points to rocket.chat perhaps being more viable than I thought)
This one had so much promise, but from what I can tell is enshittifying in a similar vein to Discord. Not being free beyond 50 users even self-hosted is weird to me for an OSS project.
@mdiluz thanks a lot for this useful collection, timely and much appreciated.
FYI, Rocket.Chat does have a web client, the desktop apps are plain Electron apps. E2E support is available for DMs, but is clumsy to use.
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@mdiluz thanks a lot for this useful collection, timely and much appreciated.
FYI, Rocket.Chat does have a web client, the desktop apps are plain Electron apps. E2E support is available for DMs, but is clumsy to use.
@lenzgr oh sure I'll correct
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@lenzgr oh sure I'll correct
@lenzgr confusingly I thought someone else pointed this out last night and I'd corrected already!
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Time for a #discord alternatives thread, for no particular reason.
I've actually been looking into all available options for the past few weeks for other reasons, so here's a thread to share what I've found.
In particular I'm looking for stuff with:
* Data sovereignty
* Strong moderation tools
* Wide platform supportHopefully this gives everyone else some ideas too, and feel free to chime in with corrections, suggestions or anything else!
@mdiluz I use Element https://element.io
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Mattermost sometimes comes up
* Fully released
* Limited free use*
* "Open core"?
* Self-hostable
* Some E2E?
* Supports calls
* No web app (*correction: appears to have one)Mattermost is interesting, but seems to be far more of an enterprise solution. It's even hard to figure out *what* you get from self hosting, what actually is open source, etc.
I think it's probably worth investigating further if you're looking for something for your company/teams?
@mdiluz mattermost is what you go for if your company team is used to slack UI and you don't want to carry on paying Slack
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And finally, Matrix. This is by far the most common suggestion I get. Especially here given the shared ethos of federation.
* Fully released
* Free
* Open Source
* Self-hostable*
* E2E
* Calls*
* Moderation*
* Supported everywhereMatrix fills in *so* many of the requirements here, but still has issues.
You can self-host, but your homeserver has to host the full history and data in any channel that a signed up user joins. You could however not allow sign-ups, and just have channels.
@mdiluz when you mention hosting the full channel data a user joins do you mean local or any external channel too?
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@scott @CoMaps yeah for sure, I think if Zulip's conversation model fits with your needs it might be a great option! I'm fascinated by what they've done and I think if I had more time with it I'd be able to develop the mental model needed to use it.
I'm probably going to consider it in situations where Discourse might have been an option - it feels like an awesome forum/chat fusion for project support and discussion.
@mdiluz 100%! I am still "developing the mental model".
Discourse is nice but to me feels… slower. Like a better forum, not a chat. I think that's on purpose, of course. Each has it's purpose!
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@lenzgr confusingly I thought someone else pointed this out last night and I'd corrected already!
@mdiluz no worries, thanks for the update!
BTW, this blog post from @mttaggart might be interesting in this context: https://taggart-tech.com/discord-alternatives/
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@mdiluz no worries, thanks for the update!
BTW, this blog post from @mttaggart might be interesting in this context: https://taggart-tech.com/discord-alternatives/
@lenzgr @mttaggart yup! They're down elsewhere in the replies
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@mdiluz when you mention hosting the full channel data a user joins do you mean local or any external channel too?
@maikel external channels. The way federation works in Matrix is that the homeserver you connect to is the one serving you channels, even if those channels are on other servers. This generally means that a homeserver has to "host" the data and messages in those channels too.
Fwiw though others have clarified in the replies that you can tweak this a little and it can be less of an issue in practice!
