@ebassi Just recently I got an issue from a user on KDE who has Reduced Motion (or similar) enabled there but our GTK app on Flatpak doesn't inherit it from KDE, only (the old option) from GNOME.

@ebassi The worst thing is that Telemetry can definitely be privacy friendly ( I like the way KDE does it ) It's just people's ignorance showing.

Let's assume that this feature is useful for 50% and not useful for the other 50%. How can we satisfy both needs? Something like a gsetting is no solution. I have not idea how to do something like this.

You just click on a button. This is how. I am pretty sure you are strong enough to survive the effort.

CC: @ebassi@mastodon.social

Thanks @uriel for your reply. I am discussing about a useful feature, nothing more, and insults are the wrong way.

It is about usability. I am able to click a button which is there in the Gnome settings, but there is none. You can expect from an ordinary user to install any tweaks or gsetting stuff.

However, does it make sense to disable a practical, useful and in fact used feature. No, it does not. It is counter-productive to usability.

@ebassi

I highly repect the people working on Gnome, that's why I use it.

One of two is true.

However, in this case, not one provide any form of evidence that this feature is not useful or not used, and no evidence that an unexpected number of people are confused by this feature.

This is what adults call "making a decision". And again, you're arguing about ONE mouse click. Do you realize how MUCH LONGER this argument has taken compared to the time it takes to click, do you?

CC: @ebassi@mastodon.social

Thanks @uriel, I am not talking about a mouse click. I am concerned with Gnome. I am a user for a long time. I point to a potential mistake to disable this feature, as it is a strength, not a weakness to have it by default.

Adults do take decisions, when they have a point and - in the best case - evidence. There is no telemetry (as @ebassi pointed out), so an educated guess needs to be the basis. I am giving some evidence that this educated-guess-based decision might be wrong.

@GerryT@mastodon.social @ebassi@mastodon.social

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gsettings-desktop-schemas/-/merge_requests/119#note_2644725

My 2¢ (as input for the design team, as someone who's not a designer)

If we assume the Linux desktop has 4% market share, and assume the highly improbable fact that all of those 4% know how to use middle click paste and prefer it over the alternative autoscrolling, that's still 96% of users that are used to environments where autoscrolling is available and middle click paste doesn't exist

So we should default middle click paste to off. However it should be a setting, since it has been a feature that I'm certain many of our users have ingrained into the workflows. I can pretty much guarantee that Red Hat will get support requests about this if we turn the setting off without an easy way to turn it back on

Having a UI for this setting also gives us a convenient place to explain how the feature works, so the user can learn about it naturally

Thanks @uriel@keinpfusch.net, I am not talking about a mouse click.

You realize this is exactly what the discussion is about, right?

I point to a potential mistake to disable this feature, as it is a strength, not a weakness to have it by default.

Look, I've read a --developer-- of Gnome, saying you can configure it with a click. He even posted screenshot.
It is not --disabled-- is just configurable.

The first time I installed Linux I had to specify the horizontal frequency of the DAC in my graphical card, and now you tell me one click is "disabled"?

Ok, right. Let me ask first: do you have both arms, and both hands? Second, all your fingers are ok? If you are fingers-challenged, then you are right.

? . I am giving some evidence that this educated-guess-based decision might be wrong.

Nope. What I see is, you assume 50% true and 50% false, just because you have no numbers. And you do it in front of a mathematician. And maybe other matematicians are also looking. Do you know how delicate and sensitive we are, to this kind of "educated guess"? I feel bad, already. OMG! Someone calls an ambulance!

I suggest you do NOT pick "bookmaker" as your next career. Assuming 50%/50% may not, how to say, be the most "educated" way to do it.

CC: @ebassi@mastodon.social

@ebassi @GerryT Just because you dislike a feature doesn’t mean that it’s complete trash. Countless folk rely on this essential feature. I use this *hundreds* of times a day. It’s incredibly useful for folks who don’t (or can’t) use a keyboard for everything.

The more serious issue however, is the attitude taken. Insulting and degrading people who rely on a feature you dislike is an absolutely unacceptable way to treat fellow humans.

Hi @uriel , you really diverge from the topic. I have given substantiated response, which you did not read or did not respond to.

About 50% / 50%. I made a hypothetical situation as basis for discussion. My honest opinion is that it is something like 98% PRO, 2% CON this feature for all users that ever willingly/accidental discovered this feature.

@ebassi

Hi @uriel@keinpfusch.net , you really diverge from the topic

no. We have a developer who is telling you is configurable with a single click, and he even took screenshots. You substantiated nothing. Or, well, you tried to substantiate using this 50% / 50% assumption, just because you have no data. This is not "base for discussion", 'cause is just WRONG. "I don't know" is not "50% true". Is not "a base for discussion": is just bovine output.

About 50% / 50%. I made a hypothetical situation as basis for discussion

Again this? Everything is hypothetical for you is 50% / 50%?

My honest opinion is that it is something like 98% PRO, 2% CON this feature for all users that ever willingly/accidental discovered this feature.

this is like, you know, just your opinion, man.



CC: @ebassi@mastodon.social

@uriel Your reply shows that you did not read/comprehend my responses.

As said before, it is not about a mouse click to activate/deactivate the feature. It is about a not substantiated - and potentially wrong - decision that has a negative impact on many users and on the default usability of Gnome.

@ebassi

Privacy is not even the problem with telemetry. The problem with telemetry is that it's not human and is often used by arrogant devs who think they know better than the users who are most likely using it longer than the former

RE: https://mastodon.social/@ebassi/115847356985702336

@ebassi@mastodon.social but evil gnome kicked my cat

/j

@ebassi yeah I miss less responsibility

@ebassi Wait, is it being removed (i don't keep up). I use middle click a lot.... The only thing i didn't like was that it used a second clipboard sometimes on x11 because x11 clipboard is cursed anyway.

@swags it's being disabled by default in GTK applications and anything that listens to the GTK settings

@swags Chrome will start listening to the GTK setting in the next release, and Firefox also may disable it by default (but still listen to the GTK setting)

@ebassi Aw Well I'm gonna be a little bummed... but i sorta get it because its kinda a doohickey from the past. Worst case I'll patch it back cuz old habits die hard, but will there be a gsettings flag? (you mention gtk settings, so i assume so?)

@swags there's already a gsettings key; the change is from true to false: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gsettings-desktop-schemas/-/merge_requests/119

@ebassi Oh hell yeah, cool then I guess it is kinda impressive that people are whining about a simple default settings change (that to be fair was legacy x11 jank [i think] to begin with) but hey its what it is.