Mastodon Skip to content
  • Home
  • Aktuell
  • Tags
  • Über dieses Forum
Einklappen
Grafik mit zwei überlappenden Sprechblasen, eine grün und eine lila.
Abspeckgeflüster – Forum für Menschen mit Gewicht(ung)

Kostenlos. Werbefrei. Menschlich. Dein Abnehmforum.

  1. Home
  2. Uncategorized
  3. Confession time: I am (part of) the reason the ARIA Practices Guide looks so deceptively authoritative.[0]

Confession time: I am (part of) the reason the ARIA Practices Guide looks so deceptively authoritative.[0]

Geplant Angeheftet Gesperrt Verschoben Uncategorized
16 Beiträge 6 Kommentatoren 0 Aufrufe
  • Älteste zuerst
  • Neuste zuerst
  • Meiste Stimmen
Antworten
  • In einem neuen Thema antworten
Anmelden zum Antworten
Dieses Thema wurde gelöscht. Nur Nutzer mit entsprechenden Rechten können es sehen.
  • yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
    yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
    yatil@yatil.social
    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
    #1

    Confession time: I am (part of) the reason the ARIA Practices Guide looks so deceptively authoritative.[0]

    When I worked on the @w3c / @wai accessibility tutorials[1], we were approached by the ARIA people to write an ARIA tutorial. Now, the tutorials did already make use of ARIA in enhancing native controls. (1/4)

    yatil@yatil.socialY 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
    1
    0
    • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

      Confession time: I am (part of) the reason the ARIA Practices Guide looks so deceptively authoritative.[0]

      When I worked on the @w3c / @wai accessibility tutorials[1], we were approached by the ARIA people to write an ARIA tutorial. Now, the tutorials did already make use of ARIA in enhancing native controls. (1/4)

      yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
      yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
      yatil@yatil.social
      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
      #2

      Their proposal started with what became the “Button Pattern”[2], basically how to make a div a fully functional button. This did not mesh with what we wanted for the tutorials at all: We wanted to show how easy it can be to use the platform directly. That’s the reason the wacky “Custom Controls”[3] page exists. (2/4)

      yatil@yatil.socialY 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
      0
      • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

        Their proposal started with what became the “Button Pattern”[2], basically how to make a div a fully functional button. This did not mesh with what we wanted for the tutorials at all: We wanted to show how easy it can be to use the platform directly. That’s the reason the wacky “Custom Controls”[3] page exists. (2/4)

        yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
        yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
        yatil@yatil.social
        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
        #3

        APG was a spec-looking Group note back in the day, and after we asked for more HTML-based guidance, enhancing instead of replacing native elements, the APG was later relaunched in the form it is today. As a tutorial-like resource, that looks like it could be part of the WAI website, despite being a Working Group resource.

        (Needless to say that they are using a lot of graphics and icons, elements that are great for readers but have never been really prioritized on the main WAI site.) (3/4)

        yatil@yatil.socialY 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
        0
        • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

          APG was a spec-looking Group note back in the day, and after we asked for more HTML-based guidance, enhancing instead of replacing native elements, the APG was later relaunched in the form it is today. As a tutorial-like resource, that looks like it could be part of the WAI website, despite being a Working Group resource.

          (Needless to say that they are using a lot of graphics and icons, elements that are great for readers but have never been really prioritized on the main WAI site.) (3/4)

          yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
          yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
          yatil@yatil.social
          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
          #4

          So, that’s the story of how I kinda butterfly-effected the APG (in its current form) in existance. My bad!

          [0] See @stefan’s article here: https://www.stefanjudis.com/notes/notes-on-relying-on-the-aria-authoring-practices-guide/ (warning: unstoppable animation when leaving the tab in the background too long) or @aardrian’s article here: https://adrianroselli.com/2019/02/uncanny-a11y.html#APG
          [1] https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/
          [2] https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/button/
          [3] https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/custom-controls/ (4/4)

          db@social.lolD moritzglantz@mastodon.socialM stefan@front-end.socialS 3 Antworten Letzte Antwort
          0
          • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

            So, that’s the story of how I kinda butterfly-effected the APG (in its current form) in existance. My bad!

            [0] See @stefan’s article here: https://www.stefanjudis.com/notes/notes-on-relying-on-the-aria-authoring-practices-guide/ (warning: unstoppable animation when leaving the tab in the background too long) or @aardrian’s article here: https://adrianroselli.com/2019/02/uncanny-a11y.html#APG
            [1] https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/
            [2] https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/button/
            [3] https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/custom-controls/ (4/4)

            db@social.lolD This user is from outside of this forum
            db@social.lolD This user is from outside of this forum
            db@social.lol
            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
            #5

            @yatil thanks! I have a lot of reading to do!

            1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
            0
            • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

              So, that’s the story of how I kinda butterfly-effected the APG (in its current form) in existance. My bad!

              [0] See @stefan’s article here: https://www.stefanjudis.com/notes/notes-on-relying-on-the-aria-authoring-practices-guide/ (warning: unstoppable animation when leaving the tab in the background too long) or @aardrian’s article here: https://adrianroselli.com/2019/02/uncanny-a11y.html#APG
              [1] https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/
              [2] https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/button/
              [3] https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/custom-controls/ (4/4)

              moritzglantz@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
              moritzglantz@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
              moritzglantz@mastodon.social
              schrieb zuletzt editiert von
              #6

              @yatil @stefan @aardrian What do you think: How big would the effort be to fix them?
              How many people how many hours?

              marcus@social.marcus.ioM 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
              0
              • moritzglantz@mastodon.socialM moritzglantz@mastodon.social

                @yatil @stefan @aardrian What do you think: How big would the effort be to fix them?
                How many people how many hours?

                marcus@social.marcus.ioM This user is from outside of this forum
                marcus@social.marcus.ioM This user is from outside of this forum
                marcus@social.marcus.io
                schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                #7

                @MoritzGlantz @yatil @stefan @aardrian Having seen the discussions around adding a warning note or not to "sell" the menu pattern as a navigation (initiated by @aardrian ) via GitHub discussion, I'd say: Really big

                yatil@yatil.socialY 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                0
                • marcus@social.marcus.ioM marcus@social.marcus.io

                  @MoritzGlantz @yatil @stefan @aardrian Having seen the discussions around adding a warning note or not to "sell" the menu pattern as a navigation (initiated by @aardrian ) via GitHub discussion, I'd say: Really big

                  yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                  yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                  yatil@yatil.social
                  schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                  #8

                  @marcus @MoritzGlantz This is a political issue, not an effort issue. You would need to convince ARIA WG that it needs to change. But it does what ARIA wants, so there is no incentive to make changes.

                  moritzglantz@mastodon.socialM 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                  0
                  • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

                    @marcus @MoritzGlantz This is a political issue, not an effort issue. You would need to convince ARIA WG that it needs to change. But it does what ARIA wants, so there is no incentive to make changes.

                    moritzglantz@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                    moritzglantz@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                    moritzglantz@mastodon.social
                    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                    #9

                    @yatil @marcus Okay, if one would do it the usual way of discussing it all with the community.
                    If one would copy the page, a group of 5 people made the changes they think must be made and publish it as an alternative version, people then can use and hate?

                    That may be the only way out…

                    yatil@yatil.socialY 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                    0
                    • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

                      So, that’s the story of how I kinda butterfly-effected the APG (in its current form) in existance. My bad!

                      [0] See @stefan’s article here: https://www.stefanjudis.com/notes/notes-on-relying-on-the-aria-authoring-practices-guide/ (warning: unstoppable animation when leaving the tab in the background too long) or @aardrian’s article here: https://adrianroselli.com/2019/02/uncanny-a11y.html#APG
                      [1] https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/
                      [2] https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/button/
                      [3] https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/custom-controls/ (4/4)

                      stefan@front-end.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                      stefan@front-end.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                      stefan@front-end.social
                      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                      #10

                      @yatil Thanks for the nudge Eric. I'll look at the screensaver ASAP!

                      1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                      0
                      • moritzglantz@mastodon.socialM moritzglantz@mastodon.social

                        @yatil @marcus Okay, if one would do it the usual way of discussing it all with the community.
                        If one would copy the page, a group of 5 people made the changes they think must be made and publish it as an alternative version, people then can use and hate?

                        That may be the only way out…

                        yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                        yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                        yatil@yatil.social
                        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                        #11

                        @MoritzGlantz @marcus How would that be published on the W3C site and done by the ARIA WG? That’s what gives it the credibility. Forking it will just create another resource that won’t be kept up.

                        moritzglantz@mastodon.socialM 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                        0
                        • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

                          @MoritzGlantz @marcus How would that be published on the W3C site and done by the ARIA WG? That’s what gives it the credibility. Forking it will just create another resource that won’t be kept up.

                          moritzglantz@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                          moritzglantz@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                          moritzglantz@mastodon.social
                          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                          #12

                          @yatil @marcus It would not be published there in the first place,… maybe I am too naive to understand the reach and impact of this. But if nothing moves, what to do?

                          yatil@yatil.socialY 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                          0
                          • moritzglantz@mastodon.socialM moritzglantz@mastodon.social

                            @yatil @marcus It would not be published there in the first place,… maybe I am too naive to understand the reach and impact of this. But if nothing moves, what to do?

                            yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                            yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                            yatil@yatil.social
                            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                            #13

                            @MoritzGlantz @marcus There is nothing to do apart from complaining to the working group.

                            yatil@yatil.socialY 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                            0
                            • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

                              @MoritzGlantz @marcus There is nothing to do apart from complaining to the working group.

                              yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                              yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                              yatil@yatil.social
                              schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                              #14

                              @MoritzGlantz @marcus I mean, you could help improve the tutorials, but I don’t know how that would work after W3C/WAI has dissolved the Education and Outreach WG (EOWG). They have kneecapped educational material at WAI a lot, now staff has to do it without a WG to back them up, and hence it is all slow.

                              yatil@yatil.socialY 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                              0
                              • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

                                @MoritzGlantz @marcus I mean, you could help improve the tutorials, but I don’t know how that would work after W3C/WAI has dissolved the Education and Outreach WG (EOWG). They have kneecapped educational material at WAI a lot, now staff has to do it without a WG to back them up, and hence it is all slow.

                                yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                                yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                                yatil@yatil.social
                                schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                #15

                                @MoritzGlantz @marcus I think this is the Community Group that is supposed to continue the work on the WAI resources, but as you can see from their GitHub, there is little momentum. https://www.w3.org/community/adva11yresources/

                                aardrian@toot.cafeA 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                                0
                                • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

                                  @MoritzGlantz @marcus I think this is the Community Group that is supposed to continue the work on the WAI resources, but as you can see from their GitHub, there is little momentum. https://www.w3.org/community/adva11yresources/

                                  aardrian@toot.cafeA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  aardrian@toot.cafeA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  aardrian@toot.cafe
                                  schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                  #16

                                  @yatil @MoritzGlantz @marcus

                                  I know I was dropped from the thread, but stepping in anyway to note that there is a repo for APG:
                                  https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/

                                  The problem is that it’s not got many people looking at it, their focus is split, and it’s based on a lot of opinions.

                                  So please, file bugs. Help drive the priority. If enough noise comes in, that can refocus those limited resources.

                                  1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                                  0
                                  • svenja@mstdn.gamesS svenja@mstdn.games shared this topic
                                  Antworten
                                  • In einem neuen Thema antworten
                                  Anmelden zum Antworten
                                  • Älteste zuerst
                                  • Neuste zuerst
                                  • Meiste Stimmen



                                  Copyright (c) 2025 abSpecktrum (@abspecklog@fedimonster.de)

                                  Erstellt mit Schlaflosigkeit, Kaffee, Brokkoli & ♥

                                  Impressum | Datenschutzerklärung | Nutzungsbedingungen

                                  • Anmelden

                                  • Du hast noch kein Konto? Registrieren

                                  • Anmelden oder registrieren, um zu suchen
                                  • Erster Beitrag
                                    Letzter Beitrag
                                  0
                                  • Home
                                  • Aktuell
                                  • Tags
                                  • Über dieses Forum