Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
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@theorangetheme @davidgerard @theogrin @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs If Firefox isn't willing to cut out AI (fuck levers and knobs), then stop calling it Firefox.
Let the legacy of user trust and privacy end and stop lying to people. Mozilla is a company, the browser is a product, and you (Moz Org and Foundation) have no interest in consumer rights.
Mozilla's battlecry should be "Shut up, download the free browser, and let us watch everything you do." Because we're not your customers anymore. Stockholders and advertisers are.
Your next poll: How can (browser not Firefox) bring you ads and save you money when shopping?" That is what you want to ask, so do it.
@Tock @theorangetheme @theogrin @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs
countdown to:
1. more AI in Firefox
2. Mozilla drops Gecko in favour of Chromium
3. with all possibility of ad blocking disabled
4. certainty the massive international user base of people *just like them* will show up any day now! just you wait!! -
Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs
It's probably a good idea in general to let the AI killswitch disable all AI stuff (incl. future one) by default, but still allow the user to selectively re-enable features like translations (without having to use about:config) -
@Tock @theorangetheme @theogrin @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs
countdown to:
1. more AI in Firefox
2. Mozilla drops Gecko in favour of Chromium
3. with all possibility of ad blocking disabled
4. certainty the massive international user base of people *just like them* will show up any day now! just you wait!!@davidgerard @theorangetheme @theogrin @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social Such a waste, too. Years of standards fighting, differentiation with Gecko, then Quantum (see? I WAS a follower all along!) and being a model of what Open Source stewardship could mean for the larger Internet.
RIP Mozilla, if you thought you were floundering as a Not for Profit Corp, you're worse than useless as a Marketing Agency.
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@davidgerard @theogrin @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs I fixed it.
Do you want AI slop in Firefox?
@theorangetheme @davidgerard @theogrin @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs the whole c-level of mozilla looks sketchy af
thinking of it, firing every cis man and building up again from there wouldnt probably the worst move
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs Fireslop.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs I really love the local on-device translation, "AI" or not.
I think this question follows a fundamental misunderstanding of the AI toggle. I want I do not want to ship off my browser data to any AI company (including Mozzila), and that would be the toggle I would look for.
If Firefox/Mozilla came out with a on-device local-only LLM I would personally be more receptive. The main issue for a browser is that it should be a browser, and also not ship all my data off for harvesting by AI slop companies.
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q1 - design one
q2 - see the post you responded to@fasterandworse @davidgerard the browsers by design don’t want that extension, I don’t see a point in Mozilla forking chrome
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs maybe it shouldn't be an AI kill switch but instead a generative AI kill switch or an LLM kill switch.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs
Translation is a useful service and not really in scope for the kill switch IMO, though judging by the extremely spicy discussion here, option two might be the ideal choice -
@firefoxwebdevs But wait… what if the developers used AI to help develop the code in the browser itself? Does that mean AI kill switch purists should then rather not even use the product at all?
> what if the developers used AI to help develop the code in the browser itself?
Then the slop in the browser itself should not be trusted.
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@fasterandworse @davidgerard the browsers by design don’t want that extension, I don’t see a point in Mozilla forking chrome
@eckes @fasterandworse I don't see a point in the AI shit and the CEO has already floated blocking adblockers, so here we are
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs the "no AI" kill switch should turn off every feature based on machine learning, and list them. The list should contain specific, simple, trustworthy (verifiable) documentation about specifically which ML tech underpins the feature; how the training corpora were gathered (from whom, and with what consent); how and who vetted the model inputs; and the energy costs/environmental impacts of keeping the models up to date.
This is an opportunity to empower and to educate.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
Honestly, just remove and keep AI out of Firefox entirely, also please just stop the AI Slop enshitification.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs rather than mess about with kill switches for a product most people don't want, strip all that AI crap out of the browser and make extensions that integrate with various LLM models so those who do want it can add it but don't force this slop on everyone by default
I've been a FF user since the beta days and have now switched to Librewolf because of the AI and ad tech bloat in FF
It makes me sad to see FF decline in this way & become another AI bloated browser
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@firefoxwebdevs The frame of this question is risible.
I am begging you to just make a web browser.
Make it the best browser for the open web. Make it a browser that empowers individuals. Make it a browser that defends users against threats.
Do not make a search engine. Do not make a translation engine. Do not make a webpage summariser. Do not make a front-end for an LLM. Do not make a client-side LLM.
Just. Make. A. Web. Browser.
Please.
@m0rpk @firefoxwebdevs
Can Firefox devs put up a Yes/No poll on whether they should just make a web browser? My vote is Yes. -
Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
Are you measuring the percentage of users engaging witj your AI chat options vs. those ignoring them? What are the numbers?
How many users have you lost since?
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs ...AI & ML should be off by default.
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@tassoman @firefoxwebdevs the question is about the page translation feature, not chats.
@shadowwwind
And as shared elsethread, they're pretty open with that feature: https://github.com/mozilla/translationsIncluding pointing us to the training data they use, if I'm reading this right.
@tassoman -
@davidgerard @theorangetheme @theogrin @mdavis @firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social Such a waste, too. Years of standards fighting, differentiation with Gecko, then Quantum (see? I WAS a follower all along!) and being a model of what Open Source stewardship could mean for the larger Internet.
RIP Mozilla, if you thought you were floundering as a Not for Profit Corp, you're worse than useless as a Marketing Agency.
@Tock @davidgerard @theorangetheme @theogrin (Quick interjection: I love that everybody cares about Firefox enough to be bothered. If we didn’t, we’d be ignoring it completely. Nobody is talking about Opera.)
I get all this. My worry is that everyone just turns their backs on Firefox and abandons it, it’ll just go away. And that leaves us with Chromium ONLY.
I think we need to find productive ways to get what we need and stand firm on that. But killing it is not good for the web ecosystem.
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@tasket if you want a serious discussion about the role translations should or shouldn’t have in a browser, let me refer you to steve: https://hci.social/@fasterandworse/115849566354469222
I don’t really feel anything about the translations feature other than disappointment, a bit of concern over how the data was sourced, and a strong feeling that it shouldn’t be a core browser feature
@zzt
Here's the datasets they're using: https://opus.nlpl.eu/corpora
@tasket
