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  3. “We should not publicly shame companies for being inaccessible because that only produces fear-induced compliance instead of sustainable compliance.”

“We should not publicly shame companies for being inaccessible because that only produces fear-induced compliance instead of sustainable compliance.”

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  • jstark@tweesecake.socialJ jstark@tweesecake.social

    @Tamasg @yatil unfortunately no statistically significant change in the IT space related to accessibility was every done without some form of negative incentive like courts, laws or standards...

    yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
    yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
    yatil@yatil.social
    schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
    #3

    @jstark @Tamasg Demonstrably untrue.

    jstark@tweesecake.socialJ 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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    • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

      @jstark @Tamasg Demonstrably untrue.

      jstark@tweesecake.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
      jstark@tweesecake.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
      jstark@tweesecake.social
      schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
      #4

      @yatil @Tamasg name 5 companies of any worth that do it?

      yatil@yatil.socialY 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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      • jstark@tweesecake.socialJ jstark@tweesecake.social

        @yatil @Tamasg name 5 companies of any worth that do it?

        yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
        yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
        yatil@yatil.social
        schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
        #5

        @jstark @Tamasg Show me your statistic. (Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Nintendo, Pearson, every big retailer in Europe has made improvements)

        jstark@tweesecake.socialJ 2 Antworten Letzte Antwort
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        • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

          @jstark @Tamasg Show me your statistic. (Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Nintendo, Pearson, every big retailer in Europe has made improvements)

          jstark@tweesecake.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
          jstark@tweesecake.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
          jstark@tweesecake.social
          schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
          #6

          @yatil @Tamasg show me it wasn't due to a complaint, court case, regulation, standards... most of those referenced are...

          yatil@yatil.socialY 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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          • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

            @jstark @Tamasg Show me your statistic. (Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Nintendo, Pearson, every big retailer in Europe has made improvements)

            jstark@tweesecake.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
            jstark@tweesecake.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
            jstark@tweesecake.social
            schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
            #7

            @yatil @Tamasg and quite frankly, repots like this, aren't encouraging: https://webaim.org/projects/million/

            yatil@yatil.socialY T 2 Antworten Letzte Antwort
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            • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

              “We should not publicly shame companies for being inaccessible because that only produces fear-induced compliance instead of sustainable compliance.”

              *Eric turns chair and then baseball cap around.*

              Better fear-induced compliance than no compliance at all.

              erikkroes@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
              erikkroes@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
              erikkroes@mastodon.social
              schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
              #8

              @yatil result over motivation

              1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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              • jstark@tweesecake.socialJ jstark@tweesecake.social

                @yatil @Tamasg show me it wasn't due to a complaint, court case, regulation, standards... most of those referenced are...

                yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                yatil@yatil.social
                schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                #9

                @jstark @Tamasg Sorry, I don’t have to bring receipts to refute a claim you did without substance. Some stuff happened through external pressure, some through internal stuff. This is not black and white.

                1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                • jstark@tweesecake.socialJ jstark@tweesecake.social

                  @yatil @Tamasg and quite frankly, repots like this, aren't encouraging: https://webaim.org/projects/million/

                  yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                  yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                  yatil@yatil.social
                  schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                  #10

                  @jstark @Tamasg The absolute numbers don’t look good, the change looks quite encouraging, actually. I wrote about it here: https://yatil.net/blog/access-by-a-thousand-curb-cuts

                  1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                  • jstark@tweesecake.socialJ jstark@tweesecake.social

                    @yatil @Tamasg and quite frankly, repots like this, aren't encouraging: https://webaim.org/projects/million/

                    T This user is from outside of this forum
                    T This user is from outside of this forum
                    tamasg@mindly.social
                    schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                    #11

                    @jstark Sometimes though change happens because people did work on the inside. When Microsoft decided to add MSAA (Microsoft Active accessibility) to Windows, it wasn't because there was a lawsuit, but we had people like Kelly Ford and others working inside to make change happen. Wouldn't call that one fear-based, although perhaps pressures by orgs did help that come along, since people were so concerned about transitioning from DOS to Windows. But I definitely know that that one wasn't lawsuit, but in 1997, primarily due to pressure from disability advocates and government agencies. @yatil

                    jstark@tweesecake.socialJ 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                    • T tamasg@mindly.social

                      @jstark Sometimes though change happens because people did work on the inside. When Microsoft decided to add MSAA (Microsoft Active accessibility) to Windows, it wasn't because there was a lawsuit, but we had people like Kelly Ford and others working inside to make change happen. Wouldn't call that one fear-based, although perhaps pressures by orgs did help that come along, since people were so concerned about transitioning from DOS to Windows. But I definitely know that that one wasn't lawsuit, but in 1997, primarily due to pressure from disability advocates and government agencies. @yatil

                      jstark@tweesecake.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      jstark@tweesecake.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      jstark@tweesecake.social
                      schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                      #12

                      @Tamasg @yatil I'm simply saying it's rarely occuring without encouragement

                      yatil@yatil.socialY 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                      • jstark@tweesecake.socialJ jstark@tweesecake.social

                        @Tamasg @yatil I'm simply saying it's rarely occuring without encouragement

                        yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                        yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                        yatil@yatil.social
                        schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                        #13

                        @jstark @Tamasg I think I misread your previous message. I mean the same thing. Sorry for the confusion.

                        1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                        • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

                          “We should not publicly shame companies for being inaccessible because that only produces fear-induced compliance instead of sustainable compliance.”

                          *Eric turns chair and then baseball cap around.*

                          Better fear-induced compliance than no compliance at all.

                          aardrian@toot.cafeA This user is from outside of this forum
                          aardrian@toot.cafeA This user is from outside of this forum
                          aardrian@toot.cafe
                          schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                          #14

                          @yatil Who the hell is carrying water for the corps?

                          yatil@yatil.socialY 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                          0
                          • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

                            “We should not publicly shame companies for being inaccessible because that only produces fear-induced compliance instead of sustainable compliance.”

                            *Eric turns chair and then baseball cap around.*

                            Better fear-induced compliance than no compliance at all.

                            torb@hachyderm.ioT This user is from outside of this forum
                            torb@hachyderm.ioT This user is from outside of this forum
                            torb@hachyderm.io
                            schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                            #15

                            @yatil There's been so many times in life I'd *love* to be able to point to shaming to justify to my superiors why I'm spending time on accessibility.

                            Put another way: I think shaming could very well help out those that are already motivated to allow them to do what they actually want to do (make stuff that's accessible).

                            I know I'm not alone in literally being told to not spend time and resources on accessibility.

                            1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                            • aardrian@toot.cafeA aardrian@toot.cafe

                              @yatil Who the hell is carrying water for the corps?

                              yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                              yatil@yatil.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                              yatil@yatil.social
                              schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                              #16

                              @aardrian Some guy on LinkedIn. As always.

                              aardrian@toot.cafeA 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                              0
                              • yatil@yatil.socialY yatil@yatil.social

                                @aardrian Some guy on LinkedIn. As always.

                                aardrian@toot.cafeA This user is from outside of this forum
                                aardrian@toot.cafeA This user is from outside of this forum
                                aardrian@toot.cafe
                                schrieb am zuletzt editiert von
                                #17

                                @yatil Ah, yeah, LinkedIn is not exactly known for people sharing smart ideas.

                                1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                                0
                                • svenja@mstdn.gamesS svenja@mstdn.games shared this topic on
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