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  3. IRCv3 is shaping to be amazingly good!

IRCv3 is shaping to be amazingly good!

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  • A anonax@defcon.social

    @whitequark
    File uploads could probably be kludged exclusively on the client side with something like
    ```
    START FILE UPLOAD
    METADATA <metadata>
    BODY <base64 file contents>
    END FILE UPLOAD
    ```
    although it would be problematic in that it would show up as spam for anyone without the client extension, and would be less efficient than a binary solution. It could work the same with image, audio, video, and stickers, since those are all just specially tagged files. Could even work for streaming (hence live audio/video calls) if the files are chunked right, maybe adding CONTINUE BELOW and CONTINUED FROM ABOVE indicators.

    Of course, that would be stupid, since a 2MB file would take more characters than make up the entire LotR trilogy (~2.3M) under this encoding scheme, all of which would be shown in their raw form to any user with an incompatible client (unless IRC lets users handle this somehow). Maybe there's a reason people leave some things to the server.

    I realize I have just given an oversimplified description of how XMPP handles (or maybe handled, depending on implemented XEPs) file uploads.

    (please don't interpret this as me trying to fedisplain how you should implement a file upload protocol. don't implement it this way, please.)

    whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
    whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
    whitequark@social.treehouse.systems
    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
    #43

    @anonax I have XMPP file transfer trauma. for reals.

    I still remember what bz2|base64 starts with because it was more reliable to do that to send small files.

    (it's Qlp...)

    1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
    0
    • whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW whitequark@social.treehouse.systems

      IRCv3 is shaping to be amazingly good!

      here's the things it offers, today, right now, on a chat server we just set up in one evening:

      • you don't need a bouncer (friggin finally)
      • there are moblie clients that work well
      • you can see backlog when joining a channel
      • you can browse chat history
      • you can connect from multiple devices with one account and nickname
      • if you disconnect, your nickname is still present in a channel you joined, marked as away
      • you can highlight or DM people who are away and they'll see your message when they join (without crutches like MemoServ)
      • there is a "last read message" marker and it is synchronized between multiple connections
      • messages have identifiers (and server timestamps) and replies can be tagged with the message you're replying to
      • you don't need to deal with fussy nonsense like NickServ authorization, ghosting, or such; connect with your username and password and that's it
      • there are typing notifiers, if you want them
      • there are message reactions, if you want them

      here's the things it does not offer:

      • image, video, or file uploads
      • stickers
      • complex onboarding tools

      caveat: since IRCv3 is a true extension of IRCv2, the features listed above work if they're supported by both the server and the client. in my onboarding experience so far, people do not find it difficult to find a suitable client, but your mileage may vary. on the flipside, legacy clients will work just fine.

      unexpectly, i realized that IRCv3 can completely replace Matrix rooms for my own group chat purposes, and i'm probably not going to set up any Matrix homeservers again; it's just not worth it and frankly I should instead put that effort into coming up with a file upload IRCv3 extension or something

      nawanp@fe.disroot.orgN This user is from outside of this forum
      nawanp@fe.disroot.orgN This user is from outside of this forum
      nawanp@fe.disroot.org
      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
      #44

      Yeah. IRCv3 is good, unless you dont care about one of basic features of all modern instant messaging: presence.

      whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
      0
      • whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW whitequark@social.treehouse.systems

        IRCv3 is shaping to be amazingly good!

        here's the things it offers, today, right now, on a chat server we just set up in one evening:

        • you don't need a bouncer (friggin finally)
        • there are moblie clients that work well
        • you can see backlog when joining a channel
        • you can browse chat history
        • you can connect from multiple devices with one account and nickname
        • if you disconnect, your nickname is still present in a channel you joined, marked as away
        • you can highlight or DM people who are away and they'll see your message when they join (without crutches like MemoServ)
        • there is a "last read message" marker and it is synchronized between multiple connections
        • messages have identifiers (and server timestamps) and replies can be tagged with the message you're replying to
        • you don't need to deal with fussy nonsense like NickServ authorization, ghosting, or such; connect with your username and password and that's it
        • there are typing notifiers, if you want them
        • there are message reactions, if you want them

        here's the things it does not offer:

        • image, video, or file uploads
        • stickers
        • complex onboarding tools

        caveat: since IRCv3 is a true extension of IRCv2, the features listed above work if they're supported by both the server and the client. in my onboarding experience so far, people do not find it difficult to find a suitable client, but your mileage may vary. on the flipside, legacy clients will work just fine.

        unexpectly, i realized that IRCv3 can completely replace Matrix rooms for my own group chat purposes, and i'm probably not going to set up any Matrix homeservers again; it's just not worth it and frankly I should instead put that effort into coming up with a file upload IRCv3 extension or something

        nyx@social.xenofem.meN This user is from outside of this forum
        nyx@social.xenofem.meN This user is from outside of this forum
        nyx@social.xenofem.me
        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
        #45
        @whitequark year of the IRC desktop
        whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
        0
        • nawanp@fe.disroot.orgN nawanp@fe.disroot.org

          Yeah. IRCv3 is good, unless you dont care about one of basic features of all modern instant messaging: presence.

          whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
          whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
          whitequark@social.treehouse.systems
          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
          #46

          @nawanp matrix has no presence, discord technically has it but ime it has no correlation whatsoever to whether i'll get a response so... yeah? i don't care about presence

          1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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          • nyx@social.xenofem.meN nyx@social.xenofem.me
            @whitequark year of the IRC desktop
            whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
            whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
            whitequark@social.treehouse.systems
            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
            #47

            @nyx no joking yeah

            whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
            0
            • whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW whitequark@social.treehouse.systems

              @nyx no joking yeah

              whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
              whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
              whitequark@social.treehouse.systems
              schrieb zuletzt editiert von
              #48

              @nyx "year of IRC on phones" is probably the true correspondent though hah

              nyx@social.xenofem.meN 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
              0
              • whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW whitequark@social.treehouse.systems

                @nyx "year of IRC on phones" is probably the true correspondent though hah

                nyx@social.xenofem.meN This user is from outside of this forum
                nyx@social.xenofem.meN This user is from outside of this forum
                nyx@social.xenofem.me
                schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                #49
                @whitequark I was gonna say that aside from file uploads I think the main thing holding back IRC from being generally recommendable rn is the lack of good mobile clients lol
                whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW kimapr@ublog.kimapr.netK 2 Antworten Letzte Antwort
                0
                • nyx@social.xenofem.meN nyx@social.xenofem.me
                  @whitequark I was gonna say that aside from file uploads I think the main thing holding back IRC from being generally recommendable rn is the lack of good mobile clients lol
                  whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
                  whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
                  whitequark@social.treehouse.systems
                  schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                  #50

                  @nyx goguma is very barebones but like. It does let you chat just fine

                  I totally agree with the uploads, I should either start or join a draft spec for this

                  1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                  • nyx@social.xenofem.meN nyx@social.xenofem.me
                    @whitequark I was gonna say that aside from file uploads I think the main thing holding back IRC from being generally recommendable rn is the lack of good mobile clients lol
                    kimapr@ublog.kimapr.netK This user is from outside of this forum
                    kimapr@ublog.kimapr.netK This user is from outside of this forum
                    kimapr@ublog.kimapr.net
                    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                    #51

                    @nyx@social.xenofem.me @whitequark@social.treehouse.systems is there actually a good mobile IRC client now? last i checked the landscape was quite bad. there was like one mobile client i kind of liked that supports modern features but it only supports connecting to one server at a time (which makes it completely unusable)

                    ATM i'm just using IRC over Biboumi (XMPP-IRC bridge) and Conversations (XMPP client).

                    fiore@rentseeking.questF whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW 2 Antworten Letzte Antwort
                    0
                    • whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW whitequark@social.treehouse.systems

                      IRCv3 is shaping to be amazingly good!

                      here's the things it offers, today, right now, on a chat server we just set up in one evening:

                      • you don't need a bouncer (friggin finally)
                      • there are moblie clients that work well
                      • you can see backlog when joining a channel
                      • you can browse chat history
                      • you can connect from multiple devices with one account and nickname
                      • if you disconnect, your nickname is still present in a channel you joined, marked as away
                      • you can highlight or DM people who are away and they'll see your message when they join (without crutches like MemoServ)
                      • there is a "last read message" marker and it is synchronized between multiple connections
                      • messages have identifiers (and server timestamps) and replies can be tagged with the message you're replying to
                      • you don't need to deal with fussy nonsense like NickServ authorization, ghosting, or such; connect with your username and password and that's it
                      • there are typing notifiers, if you want them
                      • there are message reactions, if you want them

                      here's the things it does not offer:

                      • image, video, or file uploads
                      • stickers
                      • complex onboarding tools

                      caveat: since IRCv3 is a true extension of IRCv2, the features listed above work if they're supported by both the server and the client. in my onboarding experience so far, people do not find it difficult to find a suitable client, but your mileage may vary. on the flipside, legacy clients will work just fine.

                      unexpectly, i realized that IRCv3 can completely replace Matrix rooms for my own group chat purposes, and i'm probably not going to set up any Matrix homeservers again; it's just not worth it and frankly I should instead put that effort into coming up with a file upload IRCv3 extension or something

                      fiore@rentseeking.questF This user is from outside of this forum
                      fiore@rentseeking.questF This user is from outside of this forum
                      fiore@rentseeking.quest
                      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                      #52
                      imean on boarding tools can probably be handled as server bots , right ?
                      whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                      0
                      • kimapr@ublog.kimapr.netK kimapr@ublog.kimapr.net

                        @nyx@social.xenofem.me @whitequark@social.treehouse.systems is there actually a good mobile IRC client now? last i checked the landscape was quite bad. there was like one mobile client i kind of liked that supports modern features but it only supports connecting to one server at a time (which makes it completely unusable)

                        ATM i'm just using IRC over Biboumi (XMPP-IRC bridge) and Conversations (XMPP client).

                        fiore@rentseeking.questF This user is from outside of this forum
                        fiore@rentseeking.questF This user is from outside of this forum
                        fiore@rentseeking.quest
                        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                        #53
                        goguma is good if you have a bouncer like soju

                        CC: @whitequark@treehouse.systems @nyx@social.xenofem.me
                        1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                        0
                        • kimapr@ublog.kimapr.netK kimapr@ublog.kimapr.net

                          @nyx@social.xenofem.me @whitequark@social.treehouse.systems is there actually a good mobile IRC client now? last i checked the landscape was quite bad. there was like one mobile client i kind of liked that supports modern features but it only supports connecting to one server at a time (which makes it completely unusable)

                          ATM i'm just using IRC over Biboumi (XMPP-IRC bridge) and Conversations (XMPP client).

                          whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
                          whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
                          whitequark@social.treehouse.systems
                          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                          #54

                          @kimapr @nyx goguma still has that bug open yeah. lolsob

                          1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                          0
                          • fiore@rentseeking.questF fiore@rentseeking.quest
                            imean on boarding tools can probably be handled as server bots , right ?
                            whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
                            whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
                            whitequark@social.treehouse.systems
                            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                            #55

                            @fiore yes but it is a specialized fussy skill not a lot of people have

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