Friendly reminder that Mastodon, et al is federated, which means you almost certainly won't see every reply on a thread.
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@vkc this is why community maintained blocklists are important (and I really wish we had a better way to share them between instances)
@vkc there’s always (unfortunately) going to be douchebaggery. you have ~23 million people in one big online room together. calling it out so people know who to block and defederate is a good first step, but the problem is that we actually need manageable ways to *do* those things cross-instance
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Friendly reminder that Mastodon, et al is federated, which means you almost certainly won't see every reply on a thread.
Let's say you're reading a post from "reasonable.domain". And someone from "cesspool.domain" replies to it. If your instance blocked "cesspool.domain", you won't see that reply.
This effect minimizes the appearance of harm. It can be a blessing, but it also means you won't always see the problems inherent on these platforms.
@vkc Interesting, I didn't know. I wonder if I'm missing much from mastodon.social
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Friendly reminder that Mastodon, et al is federated, which means you almost certainly won't see every reply on a thread.
Let's say you're reading a post from "reasonable.domain". And someone from "cesspool.domain" replies to it. If your instance blocked "cesspool.domain", you won't see that reply.
This effect minimizes the appearance of harm. It can be a blessing, but it also means you won't always see the problems inherent on these platforms.
@vkc Thank you for bringing this up and explaining how this is problematic.
Have you seen or come up with any good solutions?
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Friendly reminder that Mastodon, et al is federated, which means you almost certainly won't see every reply on a thread.
Let's say you're reading a post from "reasonable.domain". And someone from "cesspool.domain" replies to it. If your instance blocked "cesspool.domain", you won't see that reply.
This effect minimizes the appearance of harm. It can be a blessing, but it also means you won't always see the problems inherent on these platforms.
@vkc Thank you for pointing this out.
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Friendly reminder that Mastodon, et al is federated, which means you almost certainly won't see every reply on a thread.
Let's say you're reading a post from "reasonable.domain". And someone from "cesspool.domain" replies to it. If your instance blocked "cesspool.domain", you won't see that reply.
This effect minimizes the appearance of harm. It can be a blessing, but it also means you won't always see the problems inherent on these platforms.
@vkc This is why I think blocking and user filtering should be done at a user level. Defederating a whole server because of some bad actors seems to me to be a sledgehammer to crack a wallnut.
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Friendly reminder that Mastodon, et al is federated, which means you almost certainly won't see every reply on a thread.
Let's say you're reading a post from "reasonable.domain". And someone from "cesspool.domain" replies to it. If your instance blocked "cesspool.domain", you won't see that reply.
This effect minimizes the appearance of harm. It can be a blessing, but it also means you won't always see the problems inherent on these platforms.
@vkc Yeah, I hate that. Combine it with long-running BUGS that no one seems to even bother considering as such, and all in all #mastodon is a pretty shitty app.
"cesspool.domain" pff. It's called "people I disagree with", mom ; Between reasonable and cesspool I'd chose cesspool anytime. Oh yeah, that, too: The #fediverse is simply plain BORING.
> If your instance blocked "cesspool.domain", you won't see that reply
Yeah. Hate-that-shite ; The *opposite* of dialogue.
Have a nice safe 🥱 day.
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@vkc there's a
seperate problem where you might not see a reply even if it has not been blocked; the latest issue of the mastodon software looks to fix that one.@fishidwardrobe @vkc that version that fixes that is already deployed on most mastodon instances atm
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@gabe @vkc this is a limitation in Mastodon. Other federated software (famously MissKey, IIRC) does allow that. Hopefully this will be implemented in Mastodon too.
See also
https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/6942
https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/21327
https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/22637 -
Friendly reminder that Mastodon, et al is federated, which means you almost certainly won't see every reply on a thread.
Let's say you're reading a post from "reasonable.domain". And someone from "cesspool.domain" replies to it. If your instance blocked "cesspool.domain", you won't see that reply.
This effect minimizes the appearance of harm. It can be a blessing, but it also means you won't always see the problems inherent on these platforms.
@vkc nice point. and clearly sorry to learn about your harassment.
It needs to be fought online *and* in real life... -
@alexisbushnell @mochsner @vkc @iftas @jaz
ACAB includes IFTAS
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@vkc there's a
seperate problem where you might not see a reply even if it has not been blocked; the latest issue of the mastodon software looks to fix that one.@fishidwardrobe @vkc There was another one where there was a way to send a message, tag people and then delete it - they'd get a notification with the content but it'd be unreportable because it didn't exist anymore.
I can't remember exactly how it worked, but trolls were abusing it heavily. Hopefully they've fixed it.
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@fishidwardrobe @vkc There was another one where there was a way to send a message, tag people and then delete it - they'd get a notification with the content but it'd be unreportable because it didn't exist anymore.
I can't remember exactly how it worked, but trolls were abusing it heavily. Hopefully they've fixed it.
@StryderNotavi @vkc unfortunately, i don't think that one has been fixed.
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Friendly reminder that Mastodon, et al is federated, which means you almost certainly won't see every reply on a thread.
Let's say you're reading a post from "reasonable.domain". And someone from "cesspool.domain" replies to it. If your instance blocked "cesspool.domain", you won't see that reply.
This effect minimizes the appearance of harm. It can be a blessing, but it also means you won't always see the problems inherent on these platforms.
@vkc
The additional problem is that there are massive blocklists for things that most users one a instance may not even notice. One of them blocks all instances using soapbox as a frontend because the developer holds controversial views. Another lists blocks instances that themselves don't block certain instances. And a user has no say in any of this and often won't even know.
I believe users should be in charge of what they want to block and what they want to see. Nostr's relay model is much better in that respect. -
I guess so? there's no actual harm if nobody who is offended by the comment sees it. like all the horrible stuff on the web that we never browse to. I guess we could say those sites are problems too but that reality is not something people usually complain about, except maybe when some wanted to scare us off the web in the 90s. it was a trade-off for letting people create their own sites. this moderation approach lets us share a social network with people we don't agree with 100%.
@wjmaggos a lot of people of color and marginalized groups receive a lot of hate. It's problematic if a poster can be harassed but no one of their followers can see this is happening.
I am lucky enough not to be targeted. But a lot of people are. I don't want to spend my time on the Fediverse thinking it is great while at the same time other people are being harassed.
We should try to fix the problems we see. Yes, some problems are harder than others. But we should at least try.
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Friendly reminder that Mastodon, et al is federated, which means you almost certainly won't see every reply on a thread.
Let's say you're reading a post from "reasonable.domain". And someone from "cesspool.domain" replies to it. If your instance blocked "cesspool.domain", you won't see that reply.
This effect minimizes the appearance of harm. It can be a blessing, but it also means you won't always see the problems inherent on these platforms.
@Veronica Explainsyou won't always see the problems inherent on these platforms.
if it does not show up in my stream it is not a problem inherent in my platform! -
@Beachbum this happens on Mastodon. It's what happens between instances as a result of federation/defederation.
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@vkc Yeah, I hate that. Combine it with long-running BUGS that no one seems to even bother considering as such, and all in all #mastodon is a pretty shitty app.
"cesspool.domain" pff. It's called "people I disagree with", mom ; Between reasonable and cesspool I'd chose cesspool anytime. Oh yeah, that, too: The #fediverse is simply plain BORING.
> If your instance blocked "cesspool.domain", you won't see that reply
Yeah. Hate-that-shite ; The *opposite* of dialogue.
Have a nice safe 🥱 day.
No, there's an important difference between disagreeing with someone and harassing someone. I can disagree with you and still be civil, as I'm doing now. But some small-minded people go out and look for members of a certain group, whom they then harass: it might be women, Black people, Jews or trans people, for example. That (and not constructive differences of opinion) is what most people here want to stop.
Differences of opinion are valuable: they're how we learn. Harassment is just destructive.
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I guess so? there's no actual harm if nobody who is offended by the comment sees it. like all the horrible stuff on the web that we never browse to. I guess we could say those sites are problems too but that reality is not something people usually complain about, except maybe when some wanted to scare us off the web in the 90s. it was a trade-off for letting people create their own sites. this moderation approach lets us share a social network with people we don't agree with 100%.
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Friendly reminder that Mastodon, et al is federated, which means you almost certainly won't see every reply on a thread.
Let's say you're reading a post from "reasonable.domain". And someone from "cesspool.domain" replies to it. If your instance blocked "cesspool.domain", you won't see that reply.
This effect minimizes the appearance of harm. It can be a blessing, but it also means you won't always see the problems inherent on these platforms.
For disclosure, I'm not the recipient of significant abuse, but I fully believe that it happens and is a problem. I'm also #acutallyAutistic and in the middle of a period of burnout, so brain fog is a limiting factor for me at the moment. It's entirely possible that I'm just unable to think this through properly.
I'm wondering if the harassment problem is because there's no direct, tangible consequence on the perpetrators (users or servers) for being blocked? Blocking doesn't stop the blocked from talking amongst themselves, and to others who do not block them.
Blocking seems to be the equivalent of "if I can't see it, it doesn't exist". If that's your only recourse, then all you can do is gaslight *yourself*.
Perhaps some kind of reputation mechanism might work? I know this has been tried before and has its own flaws, but I don't know if there's a way to overcome them.
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@vkc This is why I think blocking and user filtering should be done at a user level. Defederating a whole server because of some bad actors seems to me to be a sledgehammer to crack a wallnut.
@JustinMac84 @vkc I agree with this
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I ixi@mastodon.online shared this topic
