I find the way that some people understand what is and isn't racism mystifying.
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@lienrag @futurebird It may be more perverse, but the “I don’t like super-obvious racism but tolerate the rest” crowd is more insidious. They are, I think, more numerous and mostly surrounded by other white people who won’t challenge their biases. So they don’t vote for “racism” but they vote for “tough on crime” and won’t believe there’s no difference.
@lienrag @futurebird @queenofnewyork
"Black people know what white people mean when they say "law and order". - Fannie Lou Hamer -
For some white people with racism it's like they have a check list. The following things are racism... and NOTHING else:
1. The n word IF said in a MEAN way.
2. Monkeys
3. Watermelon
4. Segregated Water Fountain Signs.Show them a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed" on a changing room at a store and they are like "well that's different... maybe there is a good reason? People steal"
It's is buck wild. Why even pretend that you care about racism at all?
Some of ya'll are so damn strange.
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@futurebird Yeah
Could be a dogwhistle too in some contexts it's always good to be aware
@Nocta_Senestra @futurebird and you're absolutely right. Imagine someone being so far up their own behind that they would not eat certain delicious foods. Bizarre
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What is the issue? It's the same thing. It's a prejudice that Black people are primitive and inhuman. Like apes or some animal that attacks your pets. It's the same racism.
Is it that they don't care if it's not powerful people?
Dazzled by the wealth and power of the Obamas and so you can recognize an insult to them but not to some regular blackfolks?
It is really odd and I do not get it.
These things are equal and we only got a retraction for ONE of them. 2/
@futurebird I see only one other distinction between the remarks: one was made while out of office campaigning and the other while in office. People still expect candidates to be closer to fringe and elected officials to be more cautious despite his specific track record of no variance.
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What is the issue? It's the same thing. It's a prejudice that Black people are primitive and inhuman. Like apes or some animal that attacks your pets. It's the same racism.
Is it that they don't care if it's not powerful people?
Dazzled by the wealth and power of the Obamas and so you can recognize an insult to them but not to some regular blackfolks?
It is really odd and I do not get it.
These things are equal and we only got a retraction for ONE of them. 2/
@futurebird I think it’s because the video was targeted at specific people, which makes it easier to empathize with the targeted.
I agree that it’s actually more harmful to target a whole group of people with a disgusting (and obvious) lie, because it’s harder to debunk and draws a whole group of people into an argument (they had nothing to do with) as straw men.
But think it’s a feature of our cognition that things seem more real the more concrete they are, whether they’re harms like racism or benefits like public health interventions that prevent or reduce death and disease (like vaccinations).
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For some white people with racism it's like they have a check list. The following things are racism... and NOTHING else:
1. The n word IF said in a MEAN way.
2. Monkeys
3. Watermelon
4. Segregated Water Fountain Signs.Show them a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed" on a changing room at a store and they are like "well that's different... maybe there is a good reason? People steal"
It's is buck wild. Why even pretend that you care about racism at all?
Some of ya'll are so damn strange.
@futurebird Because it's so normalized, and because they don't know any black people well enough for them to have taken on the burden of educating them. I saw the same thing with transmisia, which made me really uncomfortably aware of how little I'd actually been listening to black and brown people myself.
So clearly the solution is to start forcefemming white people to expose more straight white folks to genuine marginalized experiences, and for them to listen instead of just hearing for once.
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They have NEVER apologized for that "cats and dogs" BS. Some people are still running around thinking it's true.
@futurebird When he said that on national television, I thought “Finally! This is it! This is so fucking stupid, this will finally be it!” Then that moment quickly passed. Nothing can get through, because he hates the people they hate
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I'm well aware that the kind of person who is "shocked" by the Obamas as apes video, but somehow didn't have the same level of reaction to "cats and dogs" isn't interested in what Black people think. They are mostly worried that "important powerful people" do not think of them as racist. So, even saying this is a little pointless.
But, maybe some of ya'll can ask your uncle or auntie why are ya'll like this? Why?
3/3
@futurebird Thanks for this thread on racism. Here in Europe, we naturally have specific forms of internalized racism. Someone who would refuse to be called a racist refers to Vietnamese people as "reed men" or "Chinese" (because all people from Asia are Chinese, of course). And they refer to Roma people as gypsies/cigosh.
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I'm well aware that the kind of person who is "shocked" by the Obamas as apes video, but somehow didn't have the same level of reaction to "cats and dogs" isn't interested in what Black people think. They are mostly worried that "important powerful people" do not think of them as racist. So, even saying this is a little pointless.
But, maybe some of ya'll can ask your uncle or auntie why are ya'll like this? Why?
3/3
@futurebird
I would like to know as well. Race was always a very in your face issue for me as a child (in Oakland California). As a child, obviously I had no responsibility for the "way things were" but I was a poor white child in a school full of poor black kids, and so I was hated by some of them as a member of the oppressor. seriously, the kids were taught that white people were evil because they made the families poor and the kids internalized that. -
@futurebird
I would like to know as well. Race was always a very in your face issue for me as a child (in Oakland California). As a child, obviously I had no responsibility for the "way things were" but I was a poor white child in a school full of poor black kids, and so I was hated by some of them as a member of the oppressor. seriously, the kids were taught that white people were evil because they made the families poor and the kids internalized that.@futurebird
Now, its true that white people DID do things to make the black families poor, while at the same time, I had nothing to do with it, and my single mom was also poor and also receiving the same food assistance etc. Its all too much for 7 year olds to understand. And while some kids hated me, some kids were great friends. I always think about Corey, a black kid with cerebral Palsy and stuttering who was just the most enthusiastic and active kid on two crutches... running all over -
@futurebird
Now, its true that white people DID do things to make the black families poor, while at the same time, I had nothing to do with it, and my single mom was also poor and also receiving the same food assistance etc. Its all too much for 7 year olds to understand. And while some kids hated me, some kids were great friends. I always think about Corey, a black kid with cerebral Palsy and stuttering who was just the most enthusiastic and active kid on two crutches... running all over@futurebird
Anyway, the experience of in that context being the hated minority and also being loved by many of the majority taught me a lot about racism. A big part of racism is attributing to specific people things that are notably more prevalent in the group. but notably more prevalent doesn't have to mean common. something that gets reported that happened once in a population of millions but had never been reported before in another group is already notably more prevalent. -
@futurebird
Anyway, the experience of in that context being the hated minority and also being loved by many of the majority taught me a lot about racism. A big part of racism is attributing to specific people things that are notably more prevalent in the group. but notably more prevalent doesn't have to mean common. something that gets reported that happened once in a population of millions but had never been reported before in another group is already notably more prevalent.@futurebird
In Oakland in the 1980s there was a story about how Vietnamese immigrants were catching and eating the Koi in the pond outside the Oakland Museum. They even shut the pond down. I have no idea if it was true or maybe it was raccoons, but let's say it was true. There were thousands of Vietnamese immigrants and it would take 3-4 of them to decimate that pond. But now this thing became a "property of the group" -
@futurebird
In Oakland in the 1980s there was a story about how Vietnamese immigrants were catching and eating the Koi in the pond outside the Oakland Museum. They even shut the pond down. I have no idea if it was true or maybe it was raccoons, but let's say it was true. There were thousands of Vietnamese immigrants and it would take 3-4 of them to decimate that pond. But now this thing became a "property of the group"@futurebird
In this way, a group of people who were refugees from absolute destruction our country had wrought on their home who were malnourished over decades who had little ability to fit in and struggled to eat ... this thing a few of them did which was an act of desperation became attributed to all of them because it was soooo unusual and therefore notably different even at prevalence of 1 in 10,000 or whatever. -
A angelacarstensen@mastodon.online shared this topic
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It's really more about the kind of imagery used in cartoons and minstrel shows to make fun of black people for... really liking two of the objectively best foods around?
But also turning any joy into shame. Ha ha ha you like eating food. How embarrassing.
@futurebird @Nocta_Senestra They *are* the objectively best foods!
I feel like people only like steak *because* it's expensive... -
For some white people with racism it's like they have a check list. The following things are racism... and NOTHING else:
1. The n word IF said in a MEAN way.
2. Monkeys
3. Watermelon
4. Segregated Water Fountain Signs.Show them a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed" on a changing room at a store and they are like "well that's different... maybe there is a good reason? People steal"
It's is buck wild. Why even pretend that you care about racism at all?
Some of ya'll are so damn strange.
@futurebird They always make excuses for their bigotry.
They're just convinced it only looks one way.
To them, bigotry is a *thing* that is clearly defined. It looks and sounds and acts one certain way. And only bigots are bigots. Good people aren't bigots. So if they believe someone is good, then they can't be a bigot.
And if a good person says something that sounds a little bigoted, they must have a good reason. Because they're good. Not bigots (bad).
It's all mental gymnastics...
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I'm well aware that the kind of person who is "shocked" by the Obamas as apes video, but somehow didn't have the same level of reaction to "cats and dogs" isn't interested in what Black people think. They are mostly worried that "important powerful people" do not think of them as racist. So, even saying this is a little pointless.
But, maybe some of ya'll can ask your uncle or auntie why are ya'll like this? Why?
3/3
@futurebird I suspect that a factor in this is that covertly racist whites don't have a problem with the racism of either of these, but were scandalized by how uncouth the ape video was. Targeting low status Haitian immigrants: classy. Targeting a former POTUS and First Lady: not classy. They see the Obamas as having proven themselves as "civilized", and Trump is debasing himself because he can't control himself when the topic of Obama comes up.
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I do not worry about the Obamas. The Obamas are fine. It's hard for me to feel sad or bad about anything that's said about them. A Haitian working two jobs and living in Ohio having to try to prove that they don't eat cats is MUCH more upsetting to me.
I mean it's all ignorance and very embarrassing.
@futurebird It's so horrific. Also the one woman in Ohio who did eat a cat, was neither Haitian nor Latina nor an immigrant, she was just having a psychotic episode while under the delusion that she'd killed her own children (her children were fine and being cared for by other relatives.) It's just really sad and I think about her a lot, I mean it's only by luck that I've never gotten that detached from reality right it's not something people bring upon themselves it just happens, apparently she's still in jail -
@futurebird They always make excuses for their bigotry.
They're just convinced it only looks one way.
To them, bigotry is a *thing* that is clearly defined. It looks and sounds and acts one certain way. And only bigots are bigots. Good people aren't bigots. So if they believe someone is good, then they can't be a bigot.
And if a good person says something that sounds a little bigoted, they must have a good reason. Because they're good. Not bigots (bad).
It's all mental gymnastics...
@futurebird @CordiallyChloe Yup! Liberals have just as much of an "I'm a good person. If you can't see that, that's a you problem!" as conservatives. They just justify it with classism and education instead of religion. But it's the same damn problem.
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@futurebird @CordiallyChloe Yup! Liberals have just as much of an "I'm a good person. If you can't see that, that's a you problem!" as conservatives. They just justify it with classism and education instead of religion. But it's the same damn problem.
@futurebird @CordiallyChloe The only way out is to give up on the whole "good people" / "bad people" dynamic and learn to apologize, listen, learn, and grow when we fuck up instead of doubling down on our goodness.
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@futurebird @CordiallyChloe The only way out is to give up on the whole "good people" / "bad people" dynamic and learn to apologize, listen, learn, and grow when we fuck up instead of doubling down on our goodness.
I don't wanna make a post about bigotry against black people all about me, but there is obviously intersectionality. And I can so easily point to this stuff in my own experiences too.
The one that makes me angriest as a trans person is "this is new to all of us. People just don't understand yet." And that INFURIATES me.
"I don't understand" is NEVER an excuse for bigotry. It's an excuse for you to *learn,* but not to perpetuate hate.
