I find the way that some people understand what is and isn't racism mystifying.
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@futurebird @Nocta_Senestra there is whole racist cliché in US culture around black people and watermelons, the association with the Palestine flag is very recent.
@riff @futurebird Okay, I've never heard of it, you learn every day
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@futurebird "Racism is bad. I am not a bad person. Therefore I cannot be a racist. Therefore what I do isn't racism." Many other things can be put in place of racism there, of course.
@RogerBW @futurebird You've just summed up my father's response to any low-key racist comment of his I point out.
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I get the point being made, agreeing not questioning it or anything, but what's the thing with watermelon? Does it have something to do with Palestine or?
@Nocta_Senestra @futurebird I wondered that myself, but from what I've seen over the years it seems that foods like watermelon and fried chicken, in the American psyche, are seen as "stereotypical things black people eat". Of course to us, Europeans, that makes no sense as to us there is nothing "ethnic" or "race specific" about eating such things, but it's good to be aware. Another example: "mammie". To the Irish in Ireland that is literally just what you call your mother. Not in the USA.
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For some white people with racism it's like they have a check list. The following things are racism... and NOTHING else:
1. The n word IF said in a MEAN way.
2. Monkeys
3. Watermelon
4. Segregated Water Fountain Signs.Show them a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed" on a changing room at a store and they are like "well that's different... maybe there is a good reason? People steal"
It's is buck wild. Why even pretend that you care about racism at all?
Some of ya'll are so damn strange.
@futurebird People from outside the state kept telling me there wasn’t racism in California, I must be mistaken. What???
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@futurebird there's an aspect of how white people react to racism which is more about class signifiers than about justice.
For people like this, racism is crass and impolite and low class. "White trash talk like that. Educated people don't" .
They tend to focus on stereotypical and specific examples of racism, like using certain words or sharing certain images.
They don't challenge the underlying assumptions that create racism.
I think that's why many white people react so badly when you point out their racism.
"you're saying I'm one of *those* people and actually I'm educated and polite! "
@Zumbador @futurebird 100% this. I grew up affluent and liberal, so to realize as an adult that I was juuuuust as much of a participant in racism, that the “I would never say _that_” was just a fig leaf and a cherished class signifier, and that I was and continue to be the beneficiary of the misery machine… that was (and is) rough.
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@Nocta_Senestra @futurebird I wondered that myself, but from what I've seen over the years it seems that foods like watermelon and fried chicken, in the American psyche, are seen as "stereotypical things black people eat". Of course to us, Europeans, that makes no sense as to us there is nothing "ethnic" or "race specific" about eating such things, but it's good to be aware. Another example: "mammie". To the Irish in Ireland that is literally just what you call your mother. Not in the USA.
Watermelon
In the south sometimes black kids would steal watermelons to eat. Because they were hungry. This was a nuisance to the plantation owners and they thought that hungry kids eating watermelon fast was funny.Fried Chicken
It's a way of making inexpensive meat more tasty and nourishing. You can't afford a steak or pork but maybe some fried chicken.These are things that brought poor black people joy so they made fun of it.
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Watermelon
In the south sometimes black kids would steal watermelons to eat. Because they were hungry. This was a nuisance to the plantation owners and they thought that hungry kids eating watermelon fast was funny.Fried Chicken
It's a way of making inexpensive meat more tasty and nourishing. You can't afford a steak or pork but maybe some fried chicken.These are things that brought poor black people joy so they made fun of it.
@futurebird I knew about the fried chicken but not the watermelon, thanks for educating me
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@futurebird People from outside the state kept telling me there wasn’t racism in California, I must be mistaken. What???
@superflippy @futurebird California (spits) ought to call themselves the Hypocrites State.
"We're progressive!" The Californians cry, while maintaining the largest, most violent, racist prison system in the country.
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@futurebird I knew about the fried chicken but not the watermelon, thanks for educating me
It's really more about the kind of imagery used in cartoons and minstrel shows to make fun of black people for... really liking two of the objectively best foods around?
But also turning any joy into shame. Ha ha ha you like eating food. How embarrassing.
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It's really more about the kind of imagery used in cartoons and minstrel shows to make fun of black people for... really liking two of the objectively best foods around?
But also turning any joy into shame. Ha ha ha you like eating food. How embarrassing.
@futurebird Yeah
Could be a dogwhistle too in some contexts it's always good to be aware
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For some white people with racism it's like they have a check list. The following things are racism... and NOTHING else:
1. The n word IF said in a MEAN way.
2. Monkeys
3. Watermelon
4. Segregated Water Fountain Signs.Show them a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed" on a changing room at a store and they are like "well that's different... maybe there is a good reason? People steal"
It's is buck wild. Why even pretend that you care about racism at all?
Some of ya'll are so damn strange.
@futurebird I think too many people think of racism as something you are, rather than something you do. If you point out to someone that something they said is racist, it’s taken as an attack on the fundamental nature of their character; you’re saying they’re A Racist and a Bad Person. There’s no room for the possibility that, having been raised in a society that systematically devalues people who aren’t white, you might have some unexamined ideas that are, in fact, racist, even while you honestly and sincerely reject the concept of racism.
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@lienrag @futurebird It may be more perverse, but the “I don’t like super-obvious racism but tolerate the rest” crowd is more insidious. They are, I think, more numerous and mostly surrounded by other white people who won’t challenge their biases. So they don’t vote for “racism” but they vote for “tough on crime” and won’t believe there’s no difference.
@lienrag @futurebird @queenofnewyork
"Black people know what white people mean when they say "law and order". - Fannie Lou Hamer -
For some white people with racism it's like they have a check list. The following things are racism... and NOTHING else:
1. The n word IF said in a MEAN way.
2. Monkeys
3. Watermelon
4. Segregated Water Fountain Signs.Show them a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed" on a changing room at a store and they are like "well that's different... maybe there is a good reason? People steal"
It's is buck wild. Why even pretend that you care about racism at all?
Some of ya'll are so damn strange.
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@futurebird Yeah
Could be a dogwhistle too in some contexts it's always good to be aware
@Nocta_Senestra @futurebird and you're absolutely right. Imagine someone being so far up their own behind that they would not eat certain delicious foods. Bizarre
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What is the issue? It's the same thing. It's a prejudice that Black people are primitive and inhuman. Like apes or some animal that attacks your pets. It's the same racism.
Is it that they don't care if it's not powerful people?
Dazzled by the wealth and power of the Obamas and so you can recognize an insult to them but not to some regular blackfolks?
It is really odd and I do not get it.
These things are equal and we only got a retraction for ONE of them. 2/
@futurebird I see only one other distinction between the remarks: one was made while out of office campaigning and the other while in office. People still expect candidates to be closer to fringe and elected officials to be more cautious despite his specific track record of no variance.
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What is the issue? It's the same thing. It's a prejudice that Black people are primitive and inhuman. Like apes or some animal that attacks your pets. It's the same racism.
Is it that they don't care if it's not powerful people?
Dazzled by the wealth and power of the Obamas and so you can recognize an insult to them but not to some regular blackfolks?
It is really odd and I do not get it.
These things are equal and we only got a retraction for ONE of them. 2/
@futurebird I think it’s because the video was targeted at specific people, which makes it easier to empathize with the targeted.
I agree that it’s actually more harmful to target a whole group of people with a disgusting (and obvious) lie, because it’s harder to debunk and draws a whole group of people into an argument (they had nothing to do with) as straw men.
But think it’s a feature of our cognition that things seem more real the more concrete they are, whether they’re harms like racism or benefits like public health interventions that prevent or reduce death and disease (like vaccinations).
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For some white people with racism it's like they have a check list. The following things are racism... and NOTHING else:
1. The n word IF said in a MEAN way.
2. Monkeys
3. Watermelon
4. Segregated Water Fountain Signs.Show them a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed" on a changing room at a store and they are like "well that's different... maybe there is a good reason? People steal"
It's is buck wild. Why even pretend that you care about racism at all?
Some of ya'll are so damn strange.
@futurebird Because it's so normalized, and because they don't know any black people well enough for them to have taken on the burden of educating them. I saw the same thing with transmisia, which made me really uncomfortably aware of how little I'd actually been listening to black and brown people myself.
So clearly the solution is to start forcefemming white people to expose more straight white folks to genuine marginalized experiences, and for them to listen instead of just hearing for once.
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They have NEVER apologized for that "cats and dogs" BS. Some people are still running around thinking it's true.
@futurebird When he said that on national television, I thought “Finally! This is it! This is so fucking stupid, this will finally be it!” Then that moment quickly passed. Nothing can get through, because he hates the people they hate
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I'm well aware that the kind of person who is "shocked" by the Obamas as apes video, but somehow didn't have the same level of reaction to "cats and dogs" isn't interested in what Black people think. They are mostly worried that "important powerful people" do not think of them as racist. So, even saying this is a little pointless.
But, maybe some of ya'll can ask your uncle or auntie why are ya'll like this? Why?
3/3
@futurebird Thanks for this thread on racism. Here in Europe, we naturally have specific forms of internalized racism. Someone who would refuse to be called a racist refers to Vietnamese people as "reed men" or "Chinese" (because all people from Asia are Chinese, of course). And they refer to Roma people as gypsies/cigosh.
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I'm well aware that the kind of person who is "shocked" by the Obamas as apes video, but somehow didn't have the same level of reaction to "cats and dogs" isn't interested in what Black people think. They are mostly worried that "important powerful people" do not think of them as racist. So, even saying this is a little pointless.
But, maybe some of ya'll can ask your uncle or auntie why are ya'll like this? Why?
3/3
@futurebird
I would like to know as well. Race was always a very in your face issue for me as a child (in Oakland California). As a child, obviously I had no responsibility for the "way things were" but I was a poor white child in a school full of poor black kids, and so I was hated by some of them as a member of the oppressor. seriously, the kids were taught that white people were evil because they made the families poor and the kids internalized that.
