We have a real problem brewing with the "Board of Peace" and it needs much more attention.
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@ashtime
ICC is toothless against US hegemony since the whole of Europe, including the ICC runs on US-owned payments systems.The US can just blacklist the ICC and payments providers/banks will jettison them faster than you can blink, as has already happened to judges working to prosecute Netanyahu's regime.
@joykill @ashtime @Brad_Rosenheim @davetroy We use Single Euro Payments Area (SEPA) system in EU, which is totally separate. The funds will flow. They can block credit/debit cards, but it would be a suicide for the US payment owners. We already have different solutions that work (like Blik in Poland), and that would end in a quick ban of US systems and switching to EU based solutions. Example: Blik already achieved 50% payment versus 43% card usage in e-commerce and I can use it in every store.
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@joykill @ashtime @Brad_Rosenheim @davetroy We use Single Euro Payments Area (SEPA) system in EU, which is totally separate. The funds will flow. They can block credit/debit cards, but it would be a suicide for the US payment owners. We already have different solutions that work (like Blik in Poland), and that would end in a quick ban of US systems and switching to EU based solutions. Example: Blik already achieved 50% payment versus 43% card usage in e-commerce and I can use it in every store.
@zelgaav
Sure "funds will flow" from one bank to another, except you will need to personally go to your bank and retrieve cash directly from them, because none of your online payments/ATM cards will work.And while you can use some national payments systems as long as they have wide enough adoption, there are no international payments systems that span the whole of the EU, much less anywhere else in the world.
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@zelgaav
Sure "funds will flow" from one bank to another, except you will need to personally go to your bank and retrieve cash directly from them, because none of your online payments/ATM cards will work.And while you can use some national payments systems as long as they have wide enough adoption, there are no international payments systems that span the whole of the EU, much less anywhere else in the world.
@zelgaav
Personally, I'm not sure how far the US needs to go before the EU switches away from US tech. There's a minor cultural shift going on now, but even then it's already backsliding at the higher levels, such as Germany going back to purchasing US-made fighter jets, talks of "sovereign cloud" infrastructure where the data centers are still on US soil, etc.In the end, there may come a unified EU online/card payments solution, but it will not be quick
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@zelgaav
Sure "funds will flow" from one bank to another, except you will need to personally go to your bank and retrieve cash directly from them, because none of your online payments/ATM cards will work.And while you can use some national payments systems as long as they have wide enough adoption, there are no international payments systems that span the whole of the EU, much less anywhere else in the world.
@joykill @ashtime @Brad_Rosenheim @davetroy I can use Blik in every shop or ATM. Or I can send money to other persons directly, because sending money "to phone" also work.
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@joykill @ashtime @Brad_Rosenheim @davetroy I can use Blik in every shop or ATM. Or I can send money to other persons directly, because sending money "to phone" also work.
@zelgaav
Okay, that's kind of cool. If you never leave Poland I guess you can manage without US payments. Wish we had anything like that in Lithuania, here everything is either Visa or Mastercard it seems. -
@zelgaav
Okay, that's kind of cool. If you never leave Poland I guess you can manage without US payments. Wish we had anything like that in Lithuania, here everything is either Visa or Mastercard it seems.@joykill @ashtime @Brad_Rosenheim @davetroy Outside of Poland l encountered oposite - you have to use cash in Germany, as it is hard to find a place which accepts cards. As far as I know there is initiative to bring national payment systems - including Blik - to other EU countries.
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@joykill @ashtime @Brad_Rosenheim @davetroy Outside of Poland l encountered oposite - you have to use cash in Germany, as it is hard to find a place which accepts cards. As far as I know there is initiative to bring national payment systems - including Blik - to other EU countries.
@zelgaav
In the Netherlands it's a bit of a mix of both - online payments to national companies can be done through their iDeal payment system (and I believe there are some other European countries/banks are on board with it such as Belgium and Germany, but not too sure about it), but cash withdrawals and in-person payments mostly use Visa/Mastercard. -
@zelgaav
In the Netherlands it's a bit of a mix of both - online payments to national companies can be done through their iDeal payment system (and I believe there are some other European countries/banks are on board with it such as Belgium and Germany, but not too sure about it), but cash withdrawals and in-person payments mostly use Visa/Mastercard.@joykill @ashtime @Brad_Rosenheim @davetroy I believe iDeal was also mentioned as potential payment system for EU. It will take some time to adopt in other countries, but the snowball is already rolling and may become avalanche wiping US payments.
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@joykill @ashtime @Brad_Rosenheim @davetroy I believe iDeal was also mentioned as potential payment system for EU. It will take some time to adopt in other countries, but the snowball is already rolling and may become avalanche wiping US payments.
@zelgaav
one can only hope, but having a centralized system based in the Netherlands is not a great solution. A unified framework of independently functioning systems would be much more robust to future shenanigans. -
@zelgaav
one can only hope, but having a centralized system based in the Netherlands is not a great solution. A unified framework of independently functioning systems would be much more robust to future shenanigans.@joykill @ashtime @Brad_Rosenheim @davetroy I seen a slide with 6 or 7 existing solutions. It is not known yet if it will be one of them, all or something new being a mix.
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@joykill @ashtime @Brad_Rosenheim @davetroy We use Single Euro Payments Area (SEPA) system in EU, which is totally separate. The funds will flow. They can block credit/debit cards, but it would be a suicide for the US payment owners. We already have different solutions that work (like Blik in Poland), and that would end in a quick ban of US systems and switching to EU based solutions. Example: Blik already achieved 50% payment versus 43% card usage in e-commerce and I can use it in every store.
@ashtime @davetroy @zelgaav @Brad_Rosenheim @joykill
Also, I was wondering about this the other day: in English domestic law, intimidating or retaliating against an ICC official is a criminal offence carrying substantial jail time. Isn't this also the case in other European countries? And if it is, why aren't the CEOs of the European subsidiaries of Visa, Mastercard, etc. being arrested?
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We have a real problem brewing with the "Board of Peace" and it needs much more attention.
1) There is no legal entity for "Board of Peace" organized under the laws of any country, meaning it is subject to NO country's laws.
2) Trump is acting like the US is party to it as a treaty organization, but only Congress has the power to approve that.
@davetroy it is reminiscent of the 'coalition of the willing' circa 2006 about wmd.
It has no legal basis, no agreed upon position. It looks like a bully pulpit on the back of the US military to me. As a veteran, that's... irritating.
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We have a real problem brewing with the "Board of Peace" and it needs much more attention.
1) There is no legal entity for "Board of Peace" organized under the laws of any country, meaning it is subject to NO country's laws.
2) Trump is acting like the US is party to it as a treaty organization, but only Congress has the power to approve that.
@davetroy This is why he's doing it: blackmail by treaty. Anyone paying the vig is a fool. Donald will steal their money and blackmail them for more.
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@zelgaav
Sure "funds will flow" from one bank to another, except you will need to personally go to your bank and retrieve cash directly from them, because none of your online payments/ATM cards will work.And while you can use some national payments systems as long as they have wide enough adoption, there are no international payments systems that span the whole of the EU, much less anywhere else in the world.
@joykill @zelgaav @ashtime @Brad_Rosenheim @davetroy
Most UK bank apps have a direct payment function using "Faster Payments" (replacement for CHAPS) and/or SEPA & many EPOS systems can send a direct payment link- I'd be surprised if the same doesn't apply to most EU banks.Not as convenient as tapping your card, but it wouldn't take much to issue non Visa/Access cards with similar functionality given the banks saw a need to do so.
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We have a real problem brewing with the "Board of Peace" and it needs much more attention.
1) There is no legal entity for "Board of Peace" organized under the laws of any country, meaning it is subject to NO country's laws.
2) Trump is acting like the US is party to it as a treaty organization, but only Congress has the power to approve that.
@davetroy It's a straightforward scam whereby not-very-bright countries are conned into donating £1bn to Trump and his family, isn't it?
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@ashtime @davetroy @zelgaav @Brad_Rosenheim @joykill
Also, I was wondering about this the other day: in English domestic law, intimidating or retaliating against an ICC official is a criminal offence carrying substantial jail time. Isn't this also the case in other European countries? And if it is, why aren't the CEOs of the European subsidiaries of Visa, Mastercard, etc. being arrested?
@only_ohm @davetroy @zelgaav @Brad_Rosenheim @joykill Yeah good question. To add on this-why are we inviting war criminals to security conferences in Europe?
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