No, opposing LLMs isn't "purity culture."

@dave @aud I'm not personally sure I'd go quite that far. Someone I respect said something I vehemently disagree with, it happens. I don't think it'd be reasonable of me to insist that my heroes, as it were, agree with me on even all the important things.

I'm only being as pointed with the above because what he said is *also* something a lot of far worse people have said, and now they have more ammo.

@dave @aud I'm not personally sure I'd go quite that far. Someone I respect said something I vehemently disagree with, it happens. I don't think it'd be reasonable of me to insist that my heroes, as it were, agree with me on even all the important things.

I'm only being as pointed with the above because what he said is *also* something a lot of far worse people have said, and now they have more ammo.

@xgranade@wandering.shop @dave@alvarado.social it would be really nice if highly visible people quit it with the, "you know, you gotta hand it to the nazis on this one..."

@xgranade@wandering.shop @dave@alvarado.social also: imagine, if you will, using the term "purity culture" to refer to people (including many LGBTQ people) taking a stand against one of the major tools of christofascists

ffs

@xgranade@wandering.shop @dave@alvarado.social also: imagine, if you will, using the term "purity culture" to refer to people (including many LGBTQ people) taking a stand against one of the major tools of christofascists

ffs

@aud @xgranade *hands Audrey some eye wash*

@xgranade@wandering.shop @dave@alvarado.social the current speaker of the house keeps tab on how often his son fucking masturbates

fuck off with "purity culture" to refer to people who are trying to keep culture alive... while many of the same people are also castigated by the actual purity culture fuckers for "sexual deviancy".

No, opposing LLMs isn't "purity culture." I've seen this now from quite a few different people, and I disagree vehemently. It is good, actually, to have moral principles and hold to them, even when people with more money than you find said principles annoying.

@aud @xgranade girl, your eyes. They're gonna melt.

@xgranade@wandering.shop @dave@alvarado.social the current speaker of the house keeps tab on how often his son fucking masturbates

fuck off with "purity culture" to refer to people who are trying to keep culture alive... while many of the same people are also castigated by the actual purity culture fuckers for "sexual deviancy".

@xgranade I was drafting a thing on principles at my factory job today.

I think at the front of that is probably going to be "having principles is good and important" because, yes, all of this.

@aud @dave All of which goes into why I disagree with him vehemently *on this specific point*. But like, I also say some problematic and wildly untrue things sometimes — I try not to, but that's the result of being human, being loud, and being on the internet.

I cannot think of a single person I follow (present company included) who hasn't made me go "oh lordy" at least once and close the laptop lid.

I feel like this is an "oh lordy" moment for how I relate to Doctorow, I guess?

(What do I mean when I say I'm not open to changing my mind on the issue at the moment? I mean that when I've tried to be open minded, I get flooded with bad-faith bullshit and outright propaganda. My being closed-minded here is a temporary and reasoned position about conserving my own energies, and not letting people DDoS my rationality. I don't think that the Discourse around LLMs is *currently* at a place where opposition to boosterism benefits from open-mindedness.)

@xgranade@wandering.shop @dave@alvarado.social yeah... I'm not perfect by any means. But "purity culture" as a... AGH. And it just keeps happening with these highly visible merchants of takes. Ezra Klein*, now Doctorow...

* to be fair I don't think I've ever agreed with anything I've ever heard Klein say

@xgranade brilliant, but even in taking this time to explain you’re still too kind.

I go straight to ‘Life’s Too Short’: If I fucking don’t know someone, trust them, respect them, I have (checks population) [zero divided by 8.3 billion] fucks to give about **them**, let alone anything they might have to say. #LifesTooShort

@aud @dave Yeah, the difference in that respect between Doctorow and Klein is that I respect Doctorow because he's right significantly more often than he's not (imho), and more importantly, when he's right he got there by reasoning through it and sharing that reasoning with others.

I'm perfectly fine, by comparison, thinking that the world in which Klein admits he's a furry and chills out a bit would be a better world than this one.

@xgranade@wandering.shop @dave@alvarado.social I think I'm just gonna log off for a day or two. There's no coming back from "purity culture"

AGAIN, mike johnson is publicly abusing his son and controlling his sexuality. that's fucking "purity culture". christ

I can't with having "attempting to keep humans centered and cared for" compared to mike fucking johnson and all that controlling shit.

(What do I mean when I say I'm not open to changing my mind on the issue at the moment? I mean that when I've tried to be open minded, I get flooded with bad-faith bullshit and outright propaganda. My being closed-minded here is a temporary and reasoned position about conserving my own energies, and not letting people DDoS my rationality. I don't think that the Discourse around LLMs is *currently* at a place where opposition to boosterism benefits from open-mindedness.)

(What do I mean when I say I'm not open to changing my mind on the issue at the moment? I mean that when I've tried to be open minded, I get flooded with bad-faith bullshit and outright propaganda. My being closed-minded here is a temporary and reasoned position about conserving my own energies, and not letting people DDoS my rationality. I don't think that the Discourse around LLMs is *currently* at a place where opposition to boosterism benefits from open-mindedness.)

No, opposing LLMs isn't "purity culture." I've seen this now from quite a few different people, and I disagree vehemently. It is good, actually, to have moral principles and hold to them, even when people with more money than you find said principles annoying.