What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?

@GoodNewsGreyShoes@mastodon.art @malte@anticapitalist.party @Slacker@mastodontech.de @Kancept@infosec.exchange I totally agree with this. an important aspect of emotional maturity is being able to see someone getting frustrated at something that you like, and not taking that as frustration at you, but rather meeting them where they are and saying "I totally understand why you're frustrated. would you like some help? this was hard for me too at first but I can share what I know"

I get frustrated at any tech that I don't immediately understand because it makes me feel incredibly stupid to see others using it (seemingly) so effortlessly. and I try to show others the same understanding and respect that I would like to be shown when I feel that way

@lettosprey @Linux_in_a_Bit When it comes to files, folders, installation, I agree with you. Those are basic operating skills for a PC. The problem is that Millennials are the only generation who got any education in that and kids have iPads for school rather than a computer lab now. It's been that way for like a decade. They are operating on phones their whole lives.

We take files and folders for granted. We also take doorknobs for granted, but without knowing what it was, would you think to twist it? That's where they are.

That's not your problem or their fault, but what are their options? Who's going to teach them? Going back to cars, if they've done nothing but hop a train their whole life and now they need to drive a car, who's going to do Driver's Ed? Because the schools said, "welp, cars exist now, so all the kids will grow up knowing how to drive them!" And then proceeded to give them all train vouchers.

It doesn't have to be you, but someone has to teach them.

@bluestarultor But that was kinda the premise of the post I replied to. People don't switch to linux because linux users "are not kind and helpful enough" - and my experience - that people don't really want to switch, they just use the "linux users are not helpful enough!" to justify staying with companies they know they should really leave.

So, if we "want to beat big tech" we need to "work for free"

Our "kid" is 30 years old, still does not know how to drive a car, manages fine without it. I taught him to use computers because I realized that would be essential knowledge.

That bit paid off.

We can make our society less dependent on tech, like it was not all that long ago. But people like the convenience it gives. We could build good, publicly funded solutions, but people don't want to pay.

I don't know what the solution is, but blaming linux users for not being "helpful and friendly enough" is not the answer to anything...
@Linux_in_a_Bit

@drdirtbag @brouhaha @Linux_in_a_Bit 100%‍

I feel like there should be a series of infographics on "How to actually help & encourage new Linux users" that includes "phrases & responses to avoid at all times".

Lots of well-meaning but poorly-equipped (& rarely trained) tech support, out there.🧑‍

What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?

Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.

The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.

They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.

We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.

Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.

The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.

#Linux

@bluestarultor But that was kinda the premise of the post I replied to. People don't switch to linux because linux users "are not kind and helpful enough" - and my experience - that people don't really want to switch, they just use the "linux users are not helpful enough!" to justify staying with companies they know they should really leave.

So, if we "want to beat big tech" we need to "work for free"

Our "kid" is 30 years old, still does not know how to drive a car, manages fine without it. I taught him to use computers because I realized that would be essential knowledge.

That bit paid off.

We can make our society less dependent on tech, like it was not all that long ago. But people like the convenience it gives. We could build good, publicly funded solutions, but people don't want to pay.

I don't know what the solution is, but blaming linux users for not being "helpful and friendly enough" is not the answer to anything...
@Linux_in_a_Bit

@Linux_in_a_Bit I think this is called verbal abuse and Linux has a problem with bad management - "a fish starts stinking from the head".

RTFM means Read The Fucking Manual, which is a triple verbal abuse:
1) Ordering, which is verbal abuse (older version of Wikipedia: Verbal abuse)
2) The word "fucking", which is a curse word
3) Abusive anger. The phrase obviously conveys anger. Anger is an emotion which belongs to a situation where someone behaves unfair. But the user asking for help does not behave unfair.

Also another problem is that Linux is, in my experience, simply unreliable. When I boot up my computer, sometimes:
1) X doesn't come up, stays in text mode
2) X comes up with the screen at wrong smaller resolution and the picture is in one corner of the screen
3) Mouse doesn't work
4) Keyboard doesn't work
5) Keyboard has wrong repetition rate
6) When inserting a USB peripheral, USB hard disk disconnects and the system crashes
7) Manpages are missing important information
Fails to update between major versions with guarantee of functionality
9) System freezes to a grinding halt instead of managing the RAM resource when RAM demand from programs exceeds RAM size
10) Sound doesn't work

Also I would say 80% of solutions from Google don't work and 40% of them don't work and screw up your system and don't contain information how to reverse the changes after you did them and realized they don't work.

Asking "Have you tried Google?" is like a car mechanic asking a customer "have you tried unauthorized, possibly irreversibly damaging tampering with your engine according to the advice of a random, likely incompetent, bystander?"

@GoodNewsGreyShoes@mastodon.art @brouhaha@mastodon.social @drdirtbag@mountains.social @Linux_in_a_Bit@infosec.exchange and you know, I think a lot of us aren't even used to there BEING an available manual. I'm used to it NOW, sort of, but when I compare the manuals that come with modern devices and software ("plug in" or "reboot") compared with ones for earlier devices ("here is how to deconstruct and reconstruct each piece of the device in explicit detail, combined with part numbers and specifications for individual parts")... let's just say it took me a while to get used to the idea that the manual had any value.

@GoodNewsGreyShoes @drdirtbag @Linux_in_a_Bit @aud
I suspect most computer users today would be amazed to learn that Microsoft Word and Excel originally came with manuals. Not only that, the manuals were actually pretty good.

@Linux_in_a_Bit
Make Linux Kindness a Thing

What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?

Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.

The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.

They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.

We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.

Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.

The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.

#Linux

@clock @Linux_in_a_Bit recently set up a Debian 13.3.0 with kde ui. Very easy, everything works as expected. For solving advanced problems I got excellent help from mistral.ai.

What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?

Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.

The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.

They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.

We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.

Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.

The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.

#Linux

@lettosprey @bluestarultor
I am not blaming Linux users for not being helpful enough.
I am blaming certain Linux users for being actively unhelpful.
There's a very, very big difference.

The people it harms the most are actually people who've just switched to Linux, making it way harder for them to keep using Linux.

To put it another way, the problem is active, condescending gatekeeping; pushing away new people because they aren't good enough.
I see no way that behavior can ever be justified in the context of someone asking for help with Linux.

What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?

Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.

The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.

They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.

We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.

Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.

The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.

#Linux

What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?

Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.

The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.

They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.

We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.

Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.

The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.

#Linux

What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?

Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.

The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.

They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.

We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.

Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.

The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.

#Linux

@Linux_in_a_Bit there is another point I would like to stress as versatile Linux user: the ergonomics are a catastrophe on Linux.

E.g., on #Debian you have to click on completely unrelated icons to find the Button for shutting down the machine. Some distros even disallow this and you need to be sudo to even have the possibility to achieve this. No one supports hibernation anymore. Every time I test a Debian derivative I have one WTF moment after the other.

@Linux_in_a_Bit there is another point I would like to stress as versatile Linux user: the ergonomics are a catastrophe on Linux.

E.g., on #Debian you have to click on completely unrelated icons to find the Button for shutting down the machine. Some distros even disallow this and you need to be sudo to even have the possibility to achieve this. No one supports hibernation anymore. Every time I test a Debian derivative I have one WTF moment after the other.

@markuswerle @Linux_in_a_Bit actually you can do these things in Debian Linux e.g I have a separate button on my top bar to access quit, restart, suspend, hibernate, using sudoers although these days suspend doesn't properly any more, but hibernate still does, but it was very much up to me as the user to set this up myself or to find a Debian variant that already does exactly what I wanted.
When I used Mint it mostly worked out of the box so I could recommend it to newbies, whilst remaining configurable, but then it got the systemd cancer so now I use Devuan.