Hot take: good riddance.

@vkc @rappscal There's already an official GUI app for it, alongside other obscure things like "focus follows mouse" for window management etc.: https://mastodon.social/@nekohayo/115871263647122444

@DarcMoughty @syllopsium @peterrenshaw @aj This matches my experience pretty closely since around 2018. I really appreciate the strides the Wayland devs have made. I'm amazed by how well Xwayland works. Meanwhile, GNOME feels mature and stable, and stays out of my way. I run a half-dozen gnome-extensions which I hope don't die on the vine, including a couple just for fun (eg "Burn My Windows"), but otherwise don't feel the need to customize it.

I'm also impressed with System76's Cosmic. I haven't tried any other DE in the last ten years that's more likely to supplant GNOME on my desk, but it's not quite mature enough for me yet (especially rough edges in handling Citrix workspace windows).

@nekohayo @vkc I'm thinking of the type of person who's using the feature for productivity, and finds themselves stuck after an upgrade - for them it's a big breaking change, and they'd presumably go looking in the gnome control center. Having to search and discover an extra app is just an aggravating extra step. But hey maybe they're such a small minority it doesn't warrant a major setting. Situation where some usage telemetry would be helpful

@vkc Meanwhile, here in KDE land: *crickets*
Yeah because here middle click is whatever the fuck you want, the correct answer to the question, what should middle click do?

@VampirePenguin my read on the proposal is this would be an option, which defaults to "off" and can be turned on by the user. IMO that's a reasonable proposal.

@volpeon OK so I don't literally mean "quit using GNOME if you dislike one or two things", I mean "rather than bring vitriol into a conversation, consider investing that time and energy in a new tool".

I often say "if you don't like it, don't use it" as a shorthand because we're blessed for choice here in the Linux ecosystem, unlike other desktop computing platforms.

so-called "insular design choices"

I mean, didn't they preemptively locked the discussion thread to just developers and insta-closed (and threatened to ban folks creating) other form topics about it trying to get some user feedback on the record?

I agree with your points that gnome gets to do whatever gnome wants, and maybe folks on the internet could try chilling out once in a while; but that said: "insular" is just a straight-up accurate way to describe gnome's process here if Brodie's reporting on the situation was accurate. ‍️

@shift @vkc @volpeon

I like GNOME, but it often makes it really hard to be liked.

And there should definitely be a lot more ways to customize it. Ideally with proper config files.

"You want to set the brightness? Sorry, you have to download a tool for that."

@vkc I'll leave this also here
https://mstdn.social/@fabiscafe/115848147812611839

@DiogoConstantino @vkc it is optional as much it is now. Just the default changes.

And ye I totally agree. One of reasons why i cannot use Windows, though surprised there is no third party thingee.

@erindesu @vkc I'm ok with it as long as it's easy to switch on.

@vkc they are causing deep emotional harm, but we’re not dealing with mature, well-adjusted adults here. We’re dealing with Linux zealots.

I like the highlight and middle-click paste. It gives me a second, and faster, clipboard.

I can see how it would be frustrating for new users and those without a suitably firm actuator on their rodent.

@vkc I’m glad middle click is getting turned off by default too.

My first experience with Linux was installing it on a Mac, connecting my Magic Mouse, then trying to work out why it was randomly pasting my clipboard all over the place instead of clicking normally.

I eventually worked out that Linux thought magic mice should have a third, mystery button in the middle which pastes. Not a good first user experience - wasn’t familiar or comfortable behaviour.

Hopefully this helps new users.

@vkc to turn this comment over, have you ever questioned the mouse design? What is the purpose of the middle button now? It's a waste of a switch ? p.s. I've been using middle paste since I moved to Linux (~1999) it's way faster than alternatives as long as your mouse isn't physical difficult. I chose my mouse carefully for that reason. Now, the feature is not really gone, it's just disabled. There is a thing called gnome tweaks, you could disable it for a while, now you can enable it instead.

@vkc see I don't like almost all choices GNOME made over the decades that's why I don#t use it and that's why I get annoyed when they hold up stuff like wayland protocols just because they don't like it on there upshot smartphone UI but I will not argue over the default of a config option as long is it is easy to change and well documented.

@vkc I don't believe anyone is arguing otherwise, especially not the people who disagree with that decision. It's just that the GNOME maintainers have a habit of not implementing features they have decided that users don't need, ranging from little things like this to maximize and minimize buttons, and I believe it's understandable to not like this mindset and think those things should at least be configurable.

"Some people like the GNOME way of doing things and those people are okay" and "One of the main draws of Linux is escaping the one-size-fits-all paradigm that Windows and MacOS are leaning into more and more lately, and the GNOME maintainers' attitude of "if you don't like your desktop how we like ours, don't use GNOME" is disappointing" are not mutually exclusive ideas.

@bkuhn @vkc Yeah, I haven’t used Gnome personally in a long time but when I did I remember seeing criticisms of it that seemed completely detached from reality, that in no way reflected the actual experience of using it.

20 years later, they’re still making the same criticisms. I admit I don’t know first-had, but I’m willing to bet that the criticisms didn’t magically become valid in the intervening time.

It’s always the same people, anyway, who never do anything but moan about systemd and/or wayland. (Wayland, especially, they’ll insist simply does not work at all, despite the evidence of thousands — millions? — of people using it regularly without issues.) These people can’t be taken seriously.

@draeand@the-gdn.net @emi@social.comfy.city @vkc@linuxmom.net accessibility is first-class citizen. But you know what? Its fucking difficult and companies do not bother to fund this effort. The only reason we have any accessibility at all is because Sun funded it for their Solaris.

@passthejoe

Who would use a one or two button mouse, if you can have a three button one.

@vkc