I can’t remember where I saw it, but I feel like today is a good time to revisit the concept of “Vegan + bacon”.
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@Opticacia @danirabbit OK, but who says they’re trying to benefit from any moral associations?
@mirjamsterdam @danirabbit
well I wouldn't think the vast majority of people are specifically trying to, but it I think it does factor into the popularity of veganism. If it weren't morally compelling then it would've remained an obscure offshoot of the vegetarian society, but now (as annoyed veggies will tell you) the vegetarian options on the menu are replaged by vegan ones.Plant-based eating is seen as the ideal in regard to health and environmentalism, loosening the standards may be a good thing in these contexts, but veganism is really qualitative not quantiative. The principle of animal liberation is incompatible with arbitrarily picking and choosing bits of animal exploitation to partake in based on, say, taste preference. So I think to refer to what is really plant-based eating or vegetarianism as 'veganism' is to benefit from what's percieved to be stronger moral position, while actually doing damage toward an understanding/cultrual norm of actual underlying principles.
Either way "putting into practice the principles of animal liberation by abstaining from enaging in animal exploitation" is a real mouthful it'd be nice if one day we could just 'vegan' and have that be understood, people appropriating the term isn't helping matters.
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@mirjamsterdam @danirabbit
well I wouldn't think the vast majority of people are specifically trying to, but it I think it does factor into the popularity of veganism. If it weren't morally compelling then it would've remained an obscure offshoot of the vegetarian society, but now (as annoyed veggies will tell you) the vegetarian options on the menu are replaged by vegan ones.Plant-based eating is seen as the ideal in regard to health and environmentalism, loosening the standards may be a good thing in these contexts, but veganism is really qualitative not quantiative. The principle of animal liberation is incompatible with arbitrarily picking and choosing bits of animal exploitation to partake in based on, say, taste preference. So I think to refer to what is really plant-based eating or vegetarianism as 'veganism' is to benefit from what's percieved to be stronger moral position, while actually doing damage toward an understanding/cultrual norm of actual underlying principles.
Either way "putting into practice the principles of animal liberation by abstaining from enaging in animal exploitation" is a real mouthful it'd be nice if one day we could just 'vegan' and have that be understood, people appropriating the term isn't helping matters.
@Opticacia @danirabbit I do get the point about precise terminology. I’m a vegetarian, not a vegan, and would never refer to myself as a vegan, or ‘vegan plus’, although I do try to replace more and more foods with plant-based alternatives. It annoys me when pescatarians are referred to as vegetarians (mainly because that confuses people as to whether vegetarians eat fish), so why would I do the same thing to vegans?
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I can’t remember where I saw it, but I feel like today is a good time to revisit the concept of “Vegan + bacon”.
People often avoid making small positive changes because they get caught up in trying to go all the way. For example, “I could never go vegan. I love bacon too much”.
So then go vegan plus bacon. Or vegetarian plus bacon. Or just switch to oat milk and eat more vegetables. Whatever small change you can make is good
@danirabbit I eat a lot of vegetables because I love vegetables! But I'm still an omnivore (periodically vegan for religious reasons, though)
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I can’t remember where I saw it, but I feel like today is a good time to revisit the concept of “Vegan + bacon”.
People often avoid making small positive changes because they get caught up in trying to go all the way. For example, “I could never go vegan. I love bacon too much”.
So then go vegan plus bacon. Or vegetarian plus bacon. Or just switch to oat milk and eat more vegetables. Whatever small change you can make is good
@danirabbit I used to call myself "semi-veggie" because I wouldn't feel guilty if I had meat once a week. Now I'm more veggie than not.
Absolutism is wrong in politics and diet.
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@FinalGirl @danirabbit Or "ham" reduction, in this case.
@eliocamp @FinalGirl @danirabbit indeed, that's a good reduction 🤪
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I can’t remember where I saw it, but I feel like today is a good time to revisit the concept of “Vegan + bacon”.
People often avoid making small positive changes because they get caught up in trying to go all the way. For example, “I could never go vegan. I love bacon too much”.
So then go vegan plus bacon. Or vegetarian plus bacon. Or just switch to oat milk and eat more vegetables. Whatever small change you can make is good
@danirabbit and who knows, three years from now you might eat vegan without bacon without noticing. Happened to me and my husband. We went from "meat and dairy only on weekends" to "oh did we actually any meat or dairy in the last two months" and stopped eating both altogether after that realisation.
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I can’t remember where I saw it, but I feel like today is a good time to revisit the concept of “Vegan + bacon”.
People often avoid making small positive changes because they get caught up in trying to go all the way. For example, “I could never go vegan. I love bacon too much”.
So then go vegan plus bacon. Or vegetarian plus bacon. Or just switch to oat milk and eat more vegetables. Whatever small change you can make is good
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@pthane @danirabbit Everyone's situation is different, and it will take more time and a more complicated path for some than for others. Also consider that these corporations intentionally work to lock us in to their products, and they make it as difficult as possible to leave. We can't blame ourselves for not being able to cut free all at once.
@jsstaedtler
When this phone dies I'll check there are custom ROMs available before I buy a replacement. Probably a second-hand Pixel + Graphene OS. My last phone had Lineage and the one before that Lineage's predecessor (?) Never occurred to me there wouldn't be a ROM for this one (Oppo).
@danirabbit -
I can’t remember where I saw it, but I feel like today is a good time to revisit the concept of “Vegan + bacon”.
People often avoid making small positive changes because they get caught up in trying to go all the way. For example, “I could never go vegan. I love bacon too much”.
So then go vegan plus bacon. Or vegetarian plus bacon. Or just switch to oat milk and eat more vegetables. Whatever small change you can make is good
@danirabbit I literally spent some time as porketarian because I was really enjoying ham
It was a little bit silly and I was worried about people not accepting it because people can be mean and prescriptive about food choices but luckily everyone I told was nice to me about it
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@danirabbit also it's amazing how people who have no ethical stance like to pick holes in other people's ethical stances.
I think it's defensive because if someone else is being moral maybe you should too - but if you can find fault you're off the hook
This results in hostility to vegan + bacon
Because it's really hard to come up with a sensible argument against being just a bit moral - it's not even that hard to do.
@sean @danirabbit so much this
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@danirabbit There's the whole performative aspect of it too. Like, I tried switching to DuckDuckGo, and switched back to Google because the search results, which are just Microslop Bing as I understand it, we're objectively worse. No big announcement, just installed udm14 and went on with my life. The only reason anyone knows I switched to Debian is because I'm a huge nerd and like talking about my computer crimes. (And making "lesbian" puns.)
And maybe I'm overly cynical, since "I switched to this significantly less affordable thing which is morally superior" is just not an option for me, but I think that is why people don't do vegan plus bacon, because you can't brag about it.
@SymTrkl @danirabbit have you tried #Qwant It’s a search engine not fakin’ bacon
@parismarx has a good guide for getting off US tech
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@danirabbit right on. A good example is my attempt to de-Meta. I removed Fecesbook, Instagram, Messenger. But I can't get rid of WhatsApp. There are family groups, friend groups and work groups on WhatsApp and the momentum is not yet there for them to all move to non Meta alternatives. Especially family groups with all the elderly members who already struggled to learn WhatsApp as "The New Thing To Use". It's too much to ask them to do it again
@rozeboosje @danirabbit I'm the same, it was such a struggle to get my parents on to Whatsapp in the first place (my Mum ended up deleting most of the contacts from her phone because she thought that would stop them contacting her on Whatsapp) I can't imaging switching them to Signal. And just about every local community group I'm in organises either by Whatsapp or Facebook
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@chewie @danirabbit Learning how to use spices also helps tremendously. I recently discovered lemon ginger rice. Chickpeas take spices a lot like chicken. Curries, tikka masala, vindaloo, North African tagines, and more generally do really well with chickpeas instead of meat.
True! I’ve been a vegetarian since forever, and I love love love spice mixes they sell for meat, BBQ, curries etc.
So often, I’ll just toss some veggies in a pan, stir fry them, and add some spice mix - ras el hanout, baharat, garam masala etc. Yum!
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Maybe you can’t buy everything local. What one thing can you start buying local? Can you switch from Starbucks to the local coffee shop? Can you switch from Petco to the local pet feed store? Can you switch from Dominoes to a local pizza place?
Maybe you can’t completely de-Google or de-Apple or de-Amazon your life. Can you switch one thing? Can you use DuckDuckGo? Move your passwords to Bitwarden? Open a Fastmail account?
@danirabbit this is such good advice. I’m quitting Azure and AWS and moving to @beasts as soon as I can.
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@danirabbit People usually underestimate how much difference small, incremental changes make over time.
If you get into the habit of preparing, say, 2 vegan meals per week, that's 100 vegan meals per year.
Plus, once you've got the hang of it, adding a third vegan meal isn't so hard. Or sometimes a fourth one, maybe. And suddenly you're at 150 per year.
It's the same for all the other good things. Doing a little, on a regular basis, just adds up, and opens further opportunities for change
@slothrop @danirabbit Depending on some things, two vegan mails a week is the Orthodox way, outside of fasting periods, of course. (If things are a bit laxer than the strictest form, it's going to be vegetarian.)
I had to give up on that because I got really sick at some point, but I'm compensating that by barely travelling anywhere anymore! (Because I'm too sick...)
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