This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
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@edgeofeurope @futurebird Actually the people who ran the Nazi camps were not ordinary people, they were hardcore followers. And they didn't just obeyed "superior orders", they made the decisions they rightfully assumed were required the whole nazi project. Not to say ordinary people played no part, of course. But what Arendt called "banality of evil" is quite misleading.
@ratel @edgeofeurope @futurebird
We shouldn't underestimate the part ordinary people played.
When ~ 300 Sowiet inmates fled concentration camp Mauthausen in February 1945, part of them asked for help at local farms and most were reported.
Only 11 survived. -
This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@futurebird "you make it sound terrible" jesus christ, not a hint of self-awareness.
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@Mab_813 @edgeofeurope @futurebird The fact that people back then knew way more than they said afterwards (as P. Longerich showed) and that consequently they did play a part in all this (out of cruelty, opportunism and - often silent - acceptance) doesn't mean there aren't a few critical steps from being an ordinary citizen to being one of those defining the rules. It's an important fact if one is to grasp how decision making in highest level and widespread complicity were working together.
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This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
“How could ordinary Germans act that way?“ said white Americans unironically.
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@Mab_813 @edgeofeurope @futurebird The fact that people back then knew way more than they said afterwards (as P. Longerich showed) and that consequently they did play a part in all this (out of cruelty, opportunism and - often silent - acceptance) doesn't mean there aren't a few critical steps from being an ordinary citizen to being one of those defining the rules. It's an important fact if one is to grasp how decision making in highest level and widespread complicity were working together.
@Mab_813 @edgeofeurope @futurebird besides, the way most people understand what Arendt called "banality of evil" is often used by ordinary people to litteraly excuse evil by "confessing" that in the same situation they would have done the same as those in higher position, thus dangerously making evil "acceptable". "This is evil !"
️ "Would I have done better ? Maybe not, as I too am an ordinary guy." ️ "This is still evil but, hey, we're just human beings." ️ "I guess it's ok." -
This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
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This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
I don't want to boost this post because the implications are too horrible.
I just want everyone to mentally change the words "illegal" to "Jew" in your heads and "taxpayer" to "Aryan," and you will see that state of the country.
I have heard this rhetoric before, from my grandparents generation (German/Austrian). Some of them where Nazi's but most where just ordinary folks that listened to the government. I feel like a lot of Americans forget that this is what enabled the Nazi's to do want they did.
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@Mab_813 @edgeofeurope @futurebird besides, the way most people understand what Arendt called "banality of evil" is often used by ordinary people to litteraly excuse evil by "confessing" that in the same situation they would have done the same as those in higher position, thus dangerously making evil "acceptable". "This is evil !"
️ "Would I have done better ? Maybe not, as I too am an ordinary guy." ️ "This is still evil but, hey, we're just human beings." ️ "I guess it's ok."@ratel @edgeofeurope @futurebird
But it's a complete logical fallacy by these people to claim that something is ok just because it's widespread.
Were many people nazis here in Austria?
yes
Was it ok?
noAnd it's not an argument I ever heard regarding nazis here. People prefer to think that they would have heroically hidden these victims in February 1945 (something very few people actually did, some forced laborers and local farmers), people here aren't running around declaring "Yes, I would also have handed them over to the authorities for certain death or killed them myself".
Hitlerjugend boys took part in the killings, they might still be around. Maybe I met one of them at the doctor or in the grocery store? an ordinary, very old guy? It's possible. -
This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@futurebird ask any German that lived thru the 3 Reich or the DDR/GDR, these types of people are everywhere. Feared by both, supporters and opponents of the regime. Because they could ruin everyone’s life
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A angelacarstensen@mastodon.online shared this topic
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Is not like they call in, crying and in distress having been menaced by some horrible gang— no it’s a literal child trying their best to learn the damn alphabet— and this lady is like “oh he’s kinda different better call the government”
@futurebird What also disturbs me is the twisting of what was actually said at the end. She literally framed the situation, as if she was preventing him from doing something bad. WTF.
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@ratel @edgeofeurope @futurebird
But it's a complete logical fallacy by these people to claim that something is ok just because it's widespread.
Were many people nazis here in Austria?
yes
Was it ok?
noAnd it's not an argument I ever heard regarding nazis here. People prefer to think that they would have heroically hidden these victims in February 1945 (something very few people actually did, some forced laborers and local farmers), people here aren't running around declaring "Yes, I would also have handed them over to the authorities for certain death or killed them myself".
Hitlerjugend boys took part in the killings, they might still be around. Maybe I met one of them at the doctor or in the grocery store? an ordinary, very old guy? It's possible.@Mab_813 @edgeofeurope @futurebird It's a complete fallacy but it works on many, many people (and in France, where I live, it certainly plays a part in normalizing far-right ideas).
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B bugspriet@social.tchncs.de shared this topic
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This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@futurebird she (the teacher in the video) does not sound very bright. as if she's just picked up this horrible idea somewhere and accepted it without examining it.
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W wando@troet.cafe shared this topic
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This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
der größte lump im ganzen land, das ist und bleibt der denunziant!
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@PhilGopon @futurebird yeah, or substitute "slaves" and "plantation owners".
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@futurebird well, that's probably how fasiscm worked in Germany and my country, Austria, some 80 years ago.
Humans can be that cruel.@mcnknopp @futurebird When I watch, read or hear about such atrocities, it is shocking, yet totally not surprising me.
That's why Hannah Arendt's concept of „The Banality of Evil“ still is one of the most disturbing, yet eye-opening works about exactly this.The British Academy: "Hannah Arendt's lessons for our times: the banality of evil, totalitarianism and statelessness" by Prof. Lyndsey Stonebridge:
https://www.thebritishacademy.ac.uk/blog/hannah-arendts-lessons-for-our-times-the-banality-of-evil-totalitarianism-and-statelessness/ -
What disturbs me is the total lack of urgency and confidence in these “reporters” as soon as Ben simply describes what they are doing “so you are reporting this person so they will be removed from the country” they put all of the responsibility on him (one caller says “isn’t that what we are doing?)
People scoff at insects following pheromone trails but the average ant puts more thought into her next action than some of these people. “The government says report these people better do it”
@futurebird Thank you for watching this and telling us.
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This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@myrmepropagandisti don't know if they're here illegally. i just think it's odd ..
that's chilling. but this is how fascism worked in germany, or the east-german rule. you need a lot of those inofficial snitches to rule, and you easily get them. -
This guy named Ben Palmer made an "Immigration tip line" and people call it thinking he's ICE.
He records them and shares it with the world.
What do people sound like when reporting their neighbors, coworkers, students? Are they confident they are doing a righteous good thing?
Witness the banality of evil in these sheepish suburban voices.
@GlasWolf @futurebird Glad he made it to expose the racist twats.
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Is not like they call in, crying and in distress having been menaced by some horrible gang— no it’s a literal child trying their best to learn the damn alphabet— and this lady is like “oh he’s kinda different better call the government”
@futurebird I almost called the police once. I was anxious and wanted to visit a public park. There were people different than me playing soccer and hanging out. I had heard that some cars were broken into. I noticed a guy walk up to my car and look in the windows. He seemed to be looking in other cars. I think he clocked me and walked back to the group. I drove away. I thought about calling but:
* looking in cars is not a crime
* I was afraid, my judgement was cloudy
* I don't trust the police. -
@futurebird I almost called the police once. I was anxious and wanted to visit a public park. There were people different than me playing soccer and hanging out. I had heard that some cars were broken into. I noticed a guy walk up to my car and look in the windows. He seemed to be looking in other cars. I think he clocked me and walked back to the group. I drove away. I thought about calling but:
* looking in cars is not a crime
* I was afraid, my judgement was cloudy
* I don't trust the police.It’s probably a good call. If I see someone like that I try to ask someone “do you know who that is?” (eg. ask some of the checkers guys if it’s summer or maybe the postman in winter)
If I’m not intimidated by the person I say hello to them.
There much less risky was of being nebby— and in the US at least cops are not very helpful or effective at investigating crimes that impact regular people— they are happy to use any noise you make to justify their own ends.
