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Hot take: good riddance.

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  • bruce@darkmoon.socialB bruce@darkmoon.social

    @vkc

    Yeah, some of those reactions are over the top. But middle click paste really is a great feature. If Gnome does away with it, I hope somebody adds it back via an extension, and fast.

    With any luck, the Gnome devs will read the room for once and abandon that idea.

    alienghic@timeloop.cafeA This user is from outside of this forum
    alienghic@timeloop.cafeA This user is from outside of this forum
    alienghic@timeloop.cafe
    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
    #122

    @bruce @vkc

    Middle click was a feature inherited from X11, and so I think they were thinking of disabling it under wayland because it's somewhat surprising behavior for new users.

    I think I saw someone say there'd be an option to turn it back on.

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    • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

      The way the article is written. The way the comments talk about it.

      Why do people make it sound like GNOME is some sort of secret cabal of Linux haters?

      It's a freaking desktop environment, they have every right to build it however they want, and you have every right to use something different. There's zero reason to get emotionally charged about it.

      elb@social.sdf.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
      elb@social.sdf.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
      elb@social.sdf.org
      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
      #123

      @vkc GNOME does have a fairly long history of being the tail that wags the dog; a lot of the freedesktop.org stuff that made desktop environments objectively worse in measurable ways ... came from GNOME, and was rammed through because it had the funding and distro backing. For example, it used to be that if you asked for a 12 pt font, you got a font that was actually 12/72 of an inch baseline spacing on your actual monitor ... but now you don't, and that's absolutely on GNOME.

      elb@social.sdf.orgE 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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      • elb@social.sdf.orgE elb@social.sdf.org

        @vkc GNOME does have a fairly long history of being the tail that wags the dog; a lot of the freedesktop.org stuff that made desktop environments objectively worse in measurable ways ... came from GNOME, and was rammed through because it had the funding and distro backing. For example, it used to be that if you asked for a 12 pt font, you got a font that was actually 12/72 of an inch baseline spacing on your actual monitor ... but now you don't, and that's absolutely on GNOME.

        elb@social.sdf.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
        elb@social.sdf.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
        elb@social.sdf.org
        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
        #124

        @vkc It may not be well articulated, but in at least some cases I think the upset is not with the fact that GNOME might be doing something different, but what kinds of effects that will have on the rest of the ecosystem.

        I'm not sure GNOME has the kind of hegemony that it had for a while there in the mid-to-late 2000s, so maybe this isn't practically as much of an issue any more, but I think it does make a lot of people (myself included) shy when GNOME does (subjectively) objectionable things.

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        • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

          Anyway, if you like GNOME and their design concepts, you're awesome and totally a valid user of Linux.

          Sick of the absurd nonsense that says otherwise.

          wwahammy@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
          wwahammy@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
          wwahammy@social.treehouse.systems
          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
          #125

          @vkc I really question a number of GNOME design decisions but I still donate to them every month: we need Linux desktop environments that fit everyone's needs. I don't know why other people can't see it that way.

          siterelenby@transfem.socialS 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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          • wwahammy@social.treehouse.systemsW wwahammy@social.treehouse.systems

            @vkc I really question a number of GNOME design decisions but I still donate to them every month: we need Linux desktop environments that fit everyone's needs. I don't know why other people can't see it that way.

            siterelenby@transfem.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
            siterelenby@transfem.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
            siterelenby@transfem.social
            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
            #126

            @wwahammy@social.treehouse.systems @vkc@linuxmom.net

            Maybe they should actually design for desktops and laptops instead of phones then?

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            • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

              The way the article is written. The way the comments talk about it.

              Why do people make it sound like GNOME is some sort of secret cabal of Linux haters?

              It's a freaking desktop environment, they have every right to build it however they want, and you have every right to use something different. There's zero reason to get emotionally charged about it.

              gooseliketyping@corteximplant.comG This user is from outside of this forum
              gooseliketyping@corteximplant.comG This user is from outside of this forum
              gooseliketyping@corteximplant.com
              schrieb zuletzt editiert von
              #127

              @vkc there's probably a need for a fork of Gtk. Reading "Gnome will make this opt in" feels like "this will become deprecated and then disappear entirely for people who aren't even using Gnome".

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              • syllopsium@peoplemaking.gamesS syllopsium@peoplemaking.games

                @peterrenshaw @aj If Gnome works for you, that's great, but I suspect you're ascribing it functionality that is Linux specific or unrelated to gnome.

                The move from CRT monitors to TFT, and EDID existing on everything helped a lot. xf86, and xorg, became largely self configuring.

                Unfortunately I have to let you know that if you're running modern xorg *right now* on a CRT (even one with proper EDID) it may still be necessary to manually configure configurations. If you're using multiple GPUs, gnome will not help, because it runs after X starts. I know this because FreeBSD is merrily telling me 'you have to manually specify the GPU' today.

                Wayland is 'better' if by 'better' you define 'it starts without configuration', but not if 'it delivers all functionality that could be reasonably expected regardless of the compositor in use'.

                Although X configuration files were and are, agreed, A Pain they worked *everywhere*. As opposed to multiple options for compositors, which may not work at all!

                darcmoughty@infosec.exchangeD This user is from outside of this forum
                darcmoughty@infosec.exchangeD This user is from outside of this forum
                darcmoughty@infosec.exchange
                schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                #128

                @syllopsium @peterrenshaw @aj It's been really interesting to see all these different experiences.

                Personally, I switched to GNOME 3 in 2016 after using other DEs since 1999; I've written a lot of XConfigs and calculated modelines by hand. I didn't love GNOME, but it worked well and I felt that it was the most polished experience available.

                When Wayland became available, I eagerly adopted it. Where my HiDPI displays were basically a slideshow under X11, they were smooth as butter under GNOME and Wayland, and all my various docks and monitors were more or less plug-and-play.

                There were rough edges (figuratively, the main problem was actually blurry X11 apps, LOL), but I've been watching them go away with each release as Wayland features and awareness percolate into toolkits and apps.

                So like, I guess I just wanted to be the voice with a different experience. I switched to Wayland in 2018 and never looked back, and I really like GNOME now. I miss my wacky themes. I still occasionally encounter mild annoyances. I still have a few apps that need a little prodding with environment variables or runtime options to look right,. But overall, I'm a happy camper flinging pretty and crisp windows around between screens with different DPIs, and I'm quite comfy in my mostly-GTK+ world.

                ozdreaming@infosec.exchangeO 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                • kbm0@mastodon.socialK kbm0@mastodon.social

                  @bruce Agreed. Once you get used to it, middle-click paste is hard to shake. I still try to do it on Windows work PCs and look confused when it doesn't work.
                  Trouble is, I don't think gtk apps have done it properly for years. I think the semantics are supposed to be that if you click on somewhere with a caret, it leaves the primary selection intact. So you can highlight some text, reposition the cursor, then middle click to paste. Gnome apps seem to clear the selection when you do this.
                  @vkc

                  fnxweb@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                  fnxweb@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                  fnxweb@mastodon.social
                  schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                  #129

                  @kbm0 @bruce @vkc Now that rings a bell, it's been ages! Think X has multiple selections, and it may have been that when you lost focus your primary selection became the secondary selection? Vim changes the selection highlight under that circumstance (but it changes back again on refocus, so maybe not).

                  Fun fact, early Vim only had selection ("*) support, not clipboard, and it was I that got the PoC working for clipboard support, which Bram then adapted and added as "+.

                  I am old.

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                  • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                    Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

                    I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

                    A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

                    https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

                    lol@beige.partyL This user is from outside of this forum
                    lol@beige.partyL This user is from outside of this forum
                    lol@beige.party
                    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                    #130

                    @vkc This theory is only half baked but I think there’s something around user-centric design and misogyny; that a thoughtfully organized, aesthetically appealing environment (e.g. whining about there’s too much white space in GTK4/Adwaita apps) that takes away needless complexity and endless configuration choices is inherently inferior, pussified. The article takes a very “back in my day” tone that’s on the same continuum: the old way is the right way cos I’m scared of new things and young people and progress.

                    It’s all so exhausting. Just use i3 on Arch ffs

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                    • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                      Anyway, if you like GNOME and their design concepts, you're awesome and totally a valid user of Linux.

                      Sick of the absurd nonsense that says otherwise.

                      spaciouscoder78@pleroma.debian.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                      spaciouscoder78@pleroma.debian.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                      spaciouscoder78@pleroma.debian.social
                      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                      #131
                      @vkc @vkc @vkc I don’t like gnome out of the box but with a few shell extensions here and there it’s the best DE out there. I like how it looks and feels infinitely better than windows. To me gnome is the second best looking UI after macOS.
                      1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                      • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                        Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

                        I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

                        A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

                        https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

                        orsinium@fosstodon.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                        orsinium@fosstodon.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                        orsinium@fosstodon.org
                        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                        #132

                        @vkc

                        that's why sometimes i have the copied text randomly pasted when i scroll around! i never figured it out in 15 years of using Linux. i thought it's just a weird bug.

                        1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                        • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                          In this period, in this timeline, at this moment, maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't talk about *desktop environment design disagreements* like they're causing deep emotional harm?

                          lebout2canap@mastodon.tedomum.netL This user is from outside of this forum
                          lebout2canap@mastodon.tedomum.netL This user is from outside of this forum
                          lebout2canap@mastodon.tedomum.net
                          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                          #133

                          @vkc Before all these discussions, I didn't really have an opinion on the matter, but on reflection, opt-in doesn't seem like an unreasonable option https://mastodon.tedomum.net/@lebout2canap/115854119364697065. But getting back to your point, with this message, it was the first time I disabled reposts with comments, the debate had gotten so out of hand.

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                          • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                            Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

                            I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

                            A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

                            https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

                            G This user is from outside of this forum
                            G This user is from outside of this forum
                            gravemind@fosstodon.org
                            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                            #134

                            @vkc While I personally like this feature, I do think there should be some way to make people at least aware of this feature. I found out about it accidentally and fortunately KDE clipboard settings is very customisable with this. Been using it happily.

                            And I guess GNOME can do whatever they want, but it kinda felt weird when firefox was brought into this. In my experience the feature works only on input fields, so stuff like middle click drag to scroll or opening new tabs work just fine.

                            1/2

                            1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                            • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                              Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

                              I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

                              A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

                              https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

                              G This user is from outside of this forum
                              G This user is from outside of this forum
                              gravemind@fosstodon.org
                              schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                              #135

                              @vkc

                              But I've read some reports of accidental pastes when trying to use some 3d related (web)apps so IMO it makes sense for the browser to do something about it. Personally I agree with firefox's general stance of respecting upstream/distro settings. I'll leave it enabled because it literally halves my clicks when filling forms (yeah I'm lazy to reach for the keyboard), and on some stupid sites that literally block ctrl and right clicking, usually this method still works.

                              2/2.

                              inderix@booping.synth.downloadI 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                              • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                                Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

                                I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

                                A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

                                https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

                                eltheanine@the.teabag.ninjaE This user is from outside of this forum
                                eltheanine@the.teabag.ninjaE This user is from outside of this forum
                                eltheanine@the.teabag.ninja
                                schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                #136
                                I dunno, this looks like one person's opinion they're pushing on others, especially with firefox.
                                Gnome makes annoying dumb decisions all the time, and as long as it stayed there I'd be OK with it.
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                                • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                                  Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

                                  I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

                                  A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

                                  https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

                                  gilou@mastodon.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
                                  gilou@mastodon.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
                                  gilou@mastodon.social
                                  schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                  #137

                                  @vkc I disagree on the move, though having it opt-in like alt to move windows should be fine. I agree fully with your take on the tone and agressivity there... Smells like pettiness and sheer ingratitude. Let's get nicer and friendly, as well as more considerate..

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                                  • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                                    In this period, in this timeline, at this moment, maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't talk about *desktop environment design disagreements* like they're causing deep emotional harm?

                                    ollie@floofy.techO This user is from outside of this forum
                                    ollie@floofy.techO This user is from outside of this forum
                                    ollie@floofy.tech
                                    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                    #138

                                    @vkc best part about linux is that theres options. some people like gnome so they can use it. i like kde or xfce so i use those. why argue?

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                                    • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                                      The way the article is written. The way the comments talk about it.

                                      Why do people make it sound like GNOME is some sort of secret cabal of Linux haters?

                                      It's a freaking desktop environment, they have every right to build it however they want, and you have every right to use something different. There's zero reason to get emotionally charged about it.

                                      proficiency@mastodon.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      proficiency@mastodon.social
                                      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                      #139

                                      @vkc it's @lproven , a yellow journalist who likes to farm hates posts against GNOME and is known to have grudge against GNOME developers. 0 contributions to FOSS, btw.

                                      lproven@social.vivaldi.netL 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                                      • G gravemind@fosstodon.org

                                        @vkc

                                        But I've read some reports of accidental pastes when trying to use some 3d related (web)apps so IMO it makes sense for the browser to do something about it. Personally I agree with firefox's general stance of respecting upstream/distro settings. I'll leave it enabled because it literally halves my clicks when filling forms (yeah I'm lazy to reach for the keyboard), and on some stupid sites that literally block ctrl and right clicking, usually this method still works.

                                        2/2.

                                        inderix@booping.synth.downloadI This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        inderix@booping.synth.download
                                        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                        #140

                                        @vkc@linuxmom.net @gravemind@fosstodon.org not even just 3d ones! I do most of my design work in Figma (never got around to moving things to penpot or anything else) and my design files are sometimes littered with random strings because I forgot to disable middlemouse.paste in about://config on Firefox.

                                        middle click paste is legacy behavior from a bygone era of computing and I think the only people making use of it are people who were making use of it 35+ years ago too. I don't think it has a good place in a modern desktop, especially with tools available to make it possible to maintain several copied items (like one of the 3 different clipboard manager extensions for Gnome)

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                                        • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                                          The way the article is written. The way the comments talk about it.

                                          Why do people make it sound like GNOME is some sort of secret cabal of Linux haters?

                                          It's a freaking desktop environment, they have every right to build it however they want, and you have every right to use something different. There's zero reason to get emotionally charged about it.

                                          larsmb@mastodon.onlineL This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          larsmb@mastodon.online
                                          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                          #141

                                          @vkc I use it and find it quite helpful.

                                          Bashing changing the default so it's more accessible to new users to the platform, and hyping the rage up for a clickbaity title, and defending that as "more engaging"?

                                          I've unfollowed the author and muted mentions of The Register links.

                                          It's been going bad for a while, but that's not the energy I need in my life in 2026.

                                          They get to pick their audience, but I'm not it.

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