I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
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@johnzajac worthwhile pointing out that many websites displayed an impossible time due to a Y2K issue in Perl. The world did not stop.
Also, the consulting companies made out like bandits. They used the concept of Y2K compliance to drive business.
Because of that I am always cautious about Y2K as an analogy.
@glent @johnzajac the current Perl error comment is a classic example of survivorship bias - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
That’s the bullethole that did not disable the plane(or world wide computer network)Y2K impact would have been the equivalent of every Amazon, Microsoft, Apple and Oracle datacenter shutting off at the same instant in time and going offline.
ATMs, Supermarket Point of sales, planes, power stations, etc. all going offline too. -
I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
Because within that little perplexion - people thinking the problem was a hoax because it was fixed before it destroyed shit - is an encapsulation of the current era of Western politics, including COVID mitigation, lesser evil politics, fascism, and crime rate hyperbole
@johnzajac the most recent Y2K failure i saw was only a few years ago, when a liquor store sign told me i couldn't buy alcohol unless i was born after this day in 1900.
i've been telling non-tech people about fixing a lot of Y2K38 stuff lately, including the "this is why Y2K wasn't a problem - we fixed it" part. there were so many basic issues including "system won't boot" that would have awful to deal with. also, IMO, Y2K38 is a harder problem... i plan to skip Y2106 issues.
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I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
Because within that little perplexion - people thinking the problem was a hoax because it was fixed before it destroyed shit - is an encapsulation of the current era of Western politics, including COVID mitigation, lesser evil politics, fascism, and crime rate hyperbole
@johnzajac vaccines
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Why should my taxes pay for a "fire department"? My house isn't on fire!
[since I can't quote-boost it]
"Why should my taxes pay for a "fire department"? My house isn't on fire!"The real problem is that they then demand that the fire get put out at cost without understanding that the cost is cheaper when you do prevention.
This is one of the reasons that US health care is so expensive. People use emergency rooms for basic health care, which they only go to when things get so bad they have to. Because health care premiums and copays and deductables are so high.
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I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
Because within that little perplexion - people thinking the problem was a hoax because it was fixed before it destroyed shit - is an encapsulation of the current era of Western politics, including COVID mitigation, lesser evil politics, fascism, and crime rate hyperbole
@johnzajac there's a handful of these kinds of things, getting the ozone layer to recover was another one. Underappreciated efforts spread out globally and backed by massive amounts of paperwork that actually did a thing.
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I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
Because within that little perplexion - people thinking the problem was a hoax because it was fixed before it destroyed shit - is an encapsulation of the current era of Western politics, including COVID mitigation, lesser evil politics, fascism, and crime rate hyperbole
@johnzajac As always: There is no glory in prevention.
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@johnzajac the most recent Y2K failure i saw was only a few years ago, when a liquor store sign told me i couldn't buy alcohol unless i was born after this day in 1900.
i've been telling non-tech people about fixing a lot of Y2K38 stuff lately, including the "this is why Y2K wasn't a problem - we fixed it" part. there were so many basic issues including "system won't boot" that would have awful to deal with. also, IMO, Y2K38 is a harder problem... i plan to skip Y2106 issues.
Well, the liquor store sign is not *wrong*. No one born in 1900, or before can buy alcohol today. It's a moot point, as they're all dead.
(And I'm assuming that the sign actually said "on or before," not "after.")
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@johnzajac the most recent Y2K failure i saw was only a few years ago, when a liquor store sign told me i couldn't buy alcohol unless i was born after this day in 1900.
i've been telling non-tech people about fixing a lot of Y2K38 stuff lately, including the "this is why Y2K wasn't a problem - we fixed it" part. there were so many basic issues including "system won't boot" that would have awful to deal with. also, IMO, Y2K38 is a harder problem... i plan to skip Y2106 issues.
I'm working on the Y10K problem. I'm a real forward-thinker.
And, actually, in reality, I'm having a remarkably hard time convincing my superiors that there are really problems with a bunch of files we have, ... in spite of the fact that one of them even has a five digit year in it. Parsing error and the file can't be used, of course. So it *is* a real-world example of the Y10K bug. (And a typo, as that field can only have past dates, and 22025 is in the future)
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I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
Because within that little perplexion - people thinking the problem was a hoax because it was fixed before it destroyed shit - is an encapsulation of the current era of Western politics, including COVID mitigation, lesser evil politics, fascism, and crime rate hyperbole
It's very hard to get people to care about infrastructure, because it's boring.
Future problems are even more boring.
I do find the concept of "technical debt" (as flawed as it is) is useful to get people thinking about infrastructure.
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I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
Because within that little perplexion - people thinking the problem was a hoax because it was fixed before it destroyed shit - is an encapsulation of the current era of Western politics, including COVID mitigation, lesser evil politics, fascism, and crime rate hyperbole
@johnzajac I think we have, but a loose collection of undesirables have spent that time in teaching it.
That they live is probably better than not, but they are regrettably employed and well-off. -
@__Styx__ @johnzajac what civilization ending event? with no ozone layer at all we'd have to deal with significantly more skin cancer and cataracts. an issue but not at that scale
@whitequark @__Styx__ @johnzajac
Perhaps do some botanical reading! -
I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
Because within that little perplexion - people thinking the problem was a hoax because it was fixed before it destroyed shit - is an encapsulation of the current era of Western politics, including COVID mitigation, lesser evil politics, fascism, and crime rate hyperbole
@johnzajac Hey, no one has ever broken into my house, I don’t even need that lock on the front door
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The ozone layer absorbs roughly 98% of incoming UVB light from both the sun and cosmological sources. Space is, not to put too fine a point on it, *anti-life*. The Earth's atmosphere (the ozone layer being a key part of this) and dynamo molten iron core (which creates our unique magnetic field) are literally the only reasons life exists *at all*.
One of the reasons "colonizing Mars" is nonsense is that it doesn't have either an ozone layer or a strong magnetic field.
@johnzajac
Mars: I think nobody has seriously suggested anyone would be walking around on the surface, even with a hat and goggles.
It is a big chunk of matter with a shallower well than Earth, useful for supply, and to hide under. -
@johnzajac iirc this episode's argument was that the risk was always overblown. Some countries didn't invest in Y2K mitigation and had no problems.
You're Wrong About: The Y2K Bug
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-y2k-bug/id1380008439?i=1000473519597
@BigHeadMode @johnzajac
I'd look for more workings on that argument, and not in someone yammering on a podcast.
Country names, for instance.Framing maintenance - even delayed maintenance - as investment may be the first visible error.
We sorted out the Y2K bug,which didn't need a lot of effort, and worked around the 2k0229 bug which also didn't need much effort, but we did need to deal with both.
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@johnzajac 2038 will be much worse.
@mpdg @johnzajac
I think mostly dealt with by hardware evolution, for us. -
@johnzajac worthwhile pointing out that many websites displayed an impossible time due to a Y2K issue in Perl. The world did not stop.
Also, the consulting companies made out like bandits. They used the concept of Y2K compliance to drive business.
Because of that I am always cautious about Y2K as an analogy.
@glent @johnzajac
Try the analogy that if the problem had been tackled more timely, the chap above could have started a year earlier, fixed the problems, and been sent for holidays and weekends in a proper fashion.Now extend it to problems some of which are and some might be existential, and the same management, Press, arsehole commentator, populists involved.
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We also learned that experts and scientists are *not* the people you want to set the pace of responding to an emergency or catastrophe.
Had experts and scientists accepted (or assumed, to limit harm) that COVID was airborne in March 2020, the pandemic could have gone a much different way.
Notoriously, many credentialed scientists also were like "we don't know if respirators work without RCTs!" which is, bluntly, batshit stupid.
@johnzajac @pjakobs @syllopsium
Could you name one, with credentials, please? -
I wish we had spent the last 26 years teaching people that the reason the 2000 bug didn't destroy a significant amount of our infrastructure is because *we caught it* and *spent thousands of hours fixing it* BEFORE the year 2000
Because within that little perplexion - people thinking the problem was a hoax because it was fixed before it destroyed shit - is an encapsulation of the current era of Western politics, including COVID mitigation, lesser evil politics, fascism, and crime rate hyperbole
@johnzajac Agree and I'm curious how you would teach and have impact. The counter-factual (ignoring the Y2K threat) is hard for most people or they don't care. I think had Y2K followed 9/11 the same effort wouldn't have materialized because with fear many just give up.
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@__Styx__ @johnzajac Also we fixed acid rain caused by sulphuric acid from coal fired power stations.
@Old_IT_geek @__Styx__ @johnzajac and by removing sulphur from diesel and lead from gasoline.
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@johnzajac my mother spent years helping to fix COBOL programs for the Y2K bug
