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Question for #blind and partially sighted folk on the fediverse:

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  • natalyad@disabled.socialN natalyad@disabled.social

    @DarkSheepArts So as others have said, ensure the standard labels/text is as clear/big as possible and well lit. I like the external booklet option in larger print as I might sit down and read that in a better lit area.

    I should say I'm deaf so audio is useless to me, but valuable for many.

    I love the idea of QR code to online version of info in a nice flexible format so people can then use their existing assistive tech to enable them to have access e.g. smartphone, or Braille device.

    darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
    darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
    darksheeparts@mastoart.social
    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
    #45

    @NatalyaD

    The QR code looks like a good option, and we can definitely have the external booklets.

    I've got quotes from companies who do audio, but it's out of my price range at the moment.

    natalyad@disabled.socialN 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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    • natalyad@disabled.socialN natalyad@disabled.social

      @DarkSheepArts I have vision issues related to vertigo, so technically my visual acuity is excellent (with glasses) but in practice it's very situational. I often find in museums that the labels/info text is too small or just hard to read in the lighting. I find spotlighting horrible cos it's not consistent and it'll white-out some stuff or be too bright while other stuff is too dim to see.

      I work in general disability/accessibility and my advice would be 'as accessible as possible by design'

      darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
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      darksheeparts@mastoart.social
      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
      #46

      @NatalyaD I get you with the spotlighting. I've inherited a horrible 90s spotlight system that I'm trying to get around. I'm hoping to install a system of LED panels to lift the shadows.

      natalyad@disabled.socialN 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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      • darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD darksheeparts@mastoart.social

        @NatalyaD

        The QR code looks like a good option, and we can definitely have the external booklets.

        I've got quotes from companies who do audio, but it's out of my price range at the moment.

        natalyad@disabled.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
        natalyad@disabled.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
        natalyad@disabled.social
        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
        #47

        @DarkSheepArts Yeah, where funds are tight it can be trying to be as flexible as you can and getting best bang for your buck.

        I've run grassroots stuff where I read out audio myself in addition to critical web text content to ensure no one had an excuse for not trying to engage with our event's code of conduct (which was a bit long but necessarily so).

        I don't know what the legal licencing text-to-speech audio options are for a 'commercial' albeit small org.

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        • econproph@mastodon.socialE econproph@mastodon.social

          @DarkSheepArts
          VIsually impaired (keratoconus) and not totally blind speaking here.
          Start by making sure any printed displays, labels, and explanations themselves are designed to maximize who can read them: good contrast, large & simple fonts - all the basic stuff of document accessibility.
          For me, any of the "apps" stuff is a non-starter since I can't easily work most "just download this app" stuff because it's too small and not accessible itself. I'd never get the app to work.

          darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
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          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
          #48

          @econproph

          That's good to know - we've tried to build that into our designs, although as I've said to others on this thread, I've inherited a horrible system of 90s era spotlights that I'm trying to improve, which is far from ideal.

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          • darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD darksheeparts@mastoart.social

            @NatalyaD I get you with the spotlighting. I've inherited a horrible 90s spotlight system that I'm trying to get around. I'm hoping to install a system of LED panels to lift the shadows.

            natalyad@disabled.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
            natalyad@disabled.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
            natalyad@disabled.social
            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
            #49

            @DarkSheepArts Yeah, often museums don't have much building control or it's not cheaply/easily fixable. Also most people seem hideously clueless about lighting, especially architects (not my fave species of professional).

            Another issue can be that exhibits can't be lit for conservation reasons, although I know some museums will do bookable out-of-hours tours for blind/low vision people with temporary brighter lighting or touch-options under supervision (or a replica for touching).

            darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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            • S scott@tweesecake.social

              @DarkSheepArts Linking to an accessible companion guide on a site might be a better shout than braille. That would be easier to produce, easier to update, definitely cheaper to maintain and most importantly, it places the choice of how to consume that with each person who wants to read it. EG, I'm totally blind here, learned braille so young that I can't even remember not knowing it, but there are boatloads of blind/VI folk who lose sight later in life and never get that opportunity. IMO audio is a really nice to have extra if you can get it done within budget, but deafblind folk get the soggy end of the stick so often, I reckon I'd try to offset that a bit by commissioning a good writer over a sound designer if I were in your shoes.

              BTW I live in London and my partner bloody loves a museum/exhibit. Would be happy to come and poke around ideas in progress. Holler whenever you've got something if that might help.

              darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
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              darksheeparts@mastoart.social
              schrieb zuletzt editiert von
              #50

              @Scott

              OOoh, thank you for the offer. I'll bookmark this and might reach out.

              Also, the context is good to know. I'd love audio, but it's so much more money than I've got at the moment (not forever, though, I've got quotes and a workable plan, I just can't get the money this year).

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              • natalyad@disabled.socialN natalyad@disabled.social

                @DarkSheepArts Yeah, where funds are tight it can be trying to be as flexible as you can and getting best bang for your buck.

                I've run grassroots stuff where I read out audio myself in addition to critical web text content to ensure no one had an excuse for not trying to engage with our event's code of conduct (which was a bit long but necessarily so).

                I don't know what the legal licencing text-to-speech audio options are for a 'commercial' albeit small org.

                natalyad@disabled.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                natalyad@disabled.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                natalyad@disabled.social
                schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                #51

                @DarkSheepArts And again, if someone has the raw text in an easy to access way, then they can use their own device with whatever tech they prefer.

                But I know not everyone does have/use tech but it is increasingly common and sometimes a cheap device can be a thing the museum hands out, like those audio tours (an area I'm deafishly ignorant of for obv reasons).

                darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                • J jmillerbiblio@mastodon.social

                  @DarkSheepArts @sbourne I like the audio component when it’s available. Biltmore was cool, because they had this receiver into which you entered the number accompanying each exhibit and would hear an explanation about it. Braille is neat when they have it, but it takes longer to read and ou can sometimes have folk start to stack up behind you

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                  darksheeparts@mastoart.social
                  schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                  #52

                  @jmillerbiblio @sbourne

                  That's my next step after this - it's out of my price range at the moment, but we're going for some grants that might help.

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                  • natalyad@disabled.socialN natalyad@disabled.social

                    @DarkSheepArts Yeah, often museums don't have much building control or it's not cheaply/easily fixable. Also most people seem hideously clueless about lighting, especially architects (not my fave species of professional).

                    Another issue can be that exhibits can't be lit for conservation reasons, although I know some museums will do bookable out-of-hours tours for blind/low vision people with temporary brighter lighting or touch-options under supervision (or a replica for touching).

                    darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
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                    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                    #53

                    @NatalyaD

                    We've got decent touch options coming in, and some that already exist, but yeah - our lighting is awful. It was designed by cool 90s designers, and as such is absolutely terrible.

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                    • natalyad@disabled.socialN natalyad@disabled.social

                      @DarkSheepArts And again, if someone has the raw text in an easy to access way, then they can use their own device with whatever tech they prefer.

                      But I know not everyone does have/use tech but it is increasingly common and sometimes a cheap device can be a thing the museum hands out, like those audio tours (an area I'm deafishly ignorant of for obv reasons).

                      darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
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                      darksheeparts@mastoart.social
                      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                      #54

                      @NatalyaD

                      Interesting. That gives me an idea for some repurposing of old tech which we might be able to do.

                      natalyad@disabled.socialN 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                      • darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD darksheeparts@mastoart.social

                        @NatalyaD

                        We've got decent touch options coming in, and some that already exist, but yeah - our lighting is awful. It was designed by cool 90s designers, and as such is absolutely terrible.

                        natalyad@disabled.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
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                        natalyad@disabled.social
                        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                        #55

                        @DarkSheepArts Yeah 1990s buildings in many ways are nicer than mid2000s onwards ones, except the sodding spotlights!

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                        • darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD darksheeparts@mastoart.social

                          @NatalyaD

                          Interesting. That gives me an idea for some repurposing of old tech which we might be able to do.

                          natalyad@disabled.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
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                          natalyad@disabled.social
                          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                          #56

                          @DarkSheepArts I think that's what it's about is trying things and considering cheap/affordable options.

                          Often 'assistive tech' people/companies can scare everyone into thinking anything less than £1000+ tech is not disability-accessible, but in the last 15 years especially there is more and more ubiquitous accessibility in mainstream tech and a lot of usable old tech for cheap/free if you know where to find it and can bash it into use.

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                          • darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD darksheeparts@mastoart.social

                            @jmillerbiblio @sbourne

                            That's my next step after this - it's out of my price range at the moment, but we're going for some grants that might help.

                            J This user is from outside of this forum
                            J This user is from outside of this forum
                            jmillerbiblio@mastodon.social
                            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                            #57

                            @DarkSheepArts @sbourne Understandable. Speaking strictly for myself, any real efforts museums can make at inclusion are appreciated. I once worked with a grad student on a paper on the accessibility of a major U.S. museum. We had a mix of things I could feel and someone who walked with us and explained more to me.

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                            • onj@hear-me.socialO onj@hear-me.social

                              @DarkSheepArts My phone. I already have it with me. Maybe scan a QR, it opens up to an accessible web page with info on, whether that be audio files the user presses play on, or written text which then is spoken via the screen-reader. If you go the latter route, then anyone who does use Braille and happens to have a display with them, such as deafblind can use that.
                              @jakobrosin thoughts on this? I know you've done similar things.

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                              jakobrosin@universeodon.com
                              schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                              #58

                              @Onj It also comes down to budget. Creating a QR code and an accessible website behind it is quite low cost. However, not everyone is confortable in using their smartphone in such settings, especially for example elderly people or people with less digital skills. In that case, an audio guide, in a form of a separate device handed out from the ticket desk, could be an easier solution. Its also possible to set up more interactive experiences with tactile representations and mockups of some exhibits. Using a solution like NaviLens could combine both, the description and also guidance around the exhibit area. NaviLens uses their own QR codes, which their app can detect from quite far (tens of meters if necessary). The app is aware of users location so it can tell you things like "exhibit hall exit is 25 meters at 2 oclock" or "Mona lisa is 10 metres ahead" and upon reaching said exhibit, it can proceed with a description for example. But we've also had QR codes at exhibits, which point to youtube videos with descriptions. @DarkSheepArts @jakobrosin@hear-me.social

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                              • darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD darksheeparts@mastoart.social

                                Question for #blind and partially sighted folk on the fediverse:

                                If you go to a museum or gallery, do you prefer braille or do you instead use a text to speech app?

                                (Or both, or something else)

                                I've got a bit of money to refurbish a small UK museum space with better provisions for Deaf and Blind folk, so I'm keen to know what will be the most useful.

                                Please Note: This is a question specifically for blind and partially sighted Fedi users, rather than fully sighted folk.

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                                christinemalec@mstdn.ca
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                                #59

                                @DarkSheepArts If you can only afford one, I'd say a text to speech ap, even something a guest can use their own device to access, QR codes are common, or text available on a website; that's the most universally accessible option, FYI I'm Blind, not DeafBlind, so only my perspective.

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                                • darksheeparts@mastoart.socialD darksheeparts@mastoart.social

                                  Question for #blind and partially sighted folk on the fediverse:

                                  If you go to a museum or gallery, do you prefer braille or do you instead use a text to speech app?

                                  (Or both, or something else)

                                  I've got a bit of money to refurbish a small UK museum space with better provisions for Deaf and Blind folk, so I'm keen to know what will be the most useful.

                                  Please Note: This is a question specifically for blind and partially sighted Fedi users, rather than fully sighted folk.

                                  wbpeckham@techhub.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  wbpeckham@techhub.social
                                  schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                  #60

                                  @DarkSheepArts I am not visually impaired, but my wife was handicapped. I would not focus on one solution but rather do all that you can to make it compatible for all impaired people who attend. Not everyone can use braille. Not everyone can use those apps. You cannot predict which solutions a customer will need, so try to make it compatible for all of them.

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