Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
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@neal @memoria "Firstly, Red Hat Enterprise Linux doesn't have signed repository metadata"
OK, well they changed it after many years of signing (and Fedora having no metadata protection at all).
"they have a special scheme involving pinned TLS certs generated by subscription-manager."
Interesting.... subscription control.
"Fedora doesn't have signed repository metadata because the tooling doesn't support it. That's it."
Very special. Gold star! I won't inquire about their motivations any further while their parent eviscerates the GPL.
@tasket @memoria Red Hat has *never* signed repository metadata. Their repository generation tooling is a derivative of the Fedora tooling. They are literally not capable of it for the same reasons Fedora isn't.
And it's not "subscription control", the TLS certificate is used to authenticate you to the Red Hat CDN and get you access to the download location. That's how it has always worked ever even before Red Hat Enterprise Linux started.
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@firefoxwebdevs I really love the local on-device translation, "AI" or not.
I think this question follows a fundamental misunderstanding of the AI toggle. I want I do not want to ship off my browser data to any AI company (including Mozzila), and that would be the toggle I would look for.
If Firefox/Mozilla came out with a on-device local-only LLM I would personally be more receptive. The main issue for a browser is that it should be a browser, and also not ship all my data off for harvesting by AI slop companies.
@soupglasses I agree with your take here, but many people in the replies have a more fundamental dislike of 'AI'.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs I voted "no" because I'd agree - this shouldn't be considered the toxic "AI".
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@chillicampari @firefoxwebdevs @joepie91 I’m kindof amazed that Mozilla can’t distinguish which changes led to the backlash. I think that’s why this whole thing feels more like putting on a show than like a genuine attempt at reform.
The timing alone makes it clear that the builtin translation was not the issue. Sure, moving it to a plugin would be an improvement, and requiring user action to enable it would be smaller improvement, but that was the case before.
️@ShadSterling @chillicampari @firefoxwebdevs @joepie91 translation is already opt-in. You're prompted about it, and the model is only downloaded if you say you want it.
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@firefoxwebdevs doing a great job at regaining users' trust there, I see
In other news, you've done such a great job at regaining my trust that I've switched browsers to anything but Firefox. Well done, Mozilla.
@mxjaygrant what was it about this post that made you switch?
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> A web browser should load web pages, allow you to interact with them ...
I would point out that translating a web page written in a non-native language allows me to interact with said page. Your argument can go both ways.
@Cappyjax Good point.
It is indeed not that simple to define what should be or what should not be a core feature. Even if for translation I am more in the "it should be add-on" team. -
@sebastian which feature resulted in the ban? Given that you can access eg chatgpt in any browser, shouldn't your company ban all browsers?
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@mage_of_dragons @cassidy @firefoxwebdevs Right, LLMs are unquestionably an AI technology, as are ML, neural nets, expert systems, and so on.
But your response misses the point. The complaint was:
Firefox users: We hate these new AI (implicitly: generative AI, LLM slop) features, please let us turn them off! (Ideally, stop wasting developer effort on them!)
Mozilla leadership: Oh, you mean you hate the AI (willfully misinterpreted to mean existing ML systems) translations?The compliant is not “It's incorrect to call LLMs AI”, the complaint is “You know perfectly well what we mean when we use "AI" in this context, stop disingenuously pretending you don't know what we're talking about”.
@RAOF @mage_of_dragons @cassidy @firefoxwebdevs the question was started clearly, yet 75% of respondents feel translation should be disabled by the switch. It doesn't seem like willful misinterpretation when the evidence is right there.
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Signed repository metadata isn't the norm in the Red Hat family. It exists in CentOS because of community efforts (that admittedly I was involved in), and basically nowhere else.
I would like that to change, but saying that Red Hat is secretly undermining the world because of this is somewhere between laughable and insane.
Someday, we'll get there. Conspiracy theories are not required to fix it, though.
Oh, and Fedora updates are extremely transparent. All the information about them is present in the updates management system, Bodhi: https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/
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@firefoxwebdevs The frame of this question is risible.
I am begging you to just make a web browser.
Make it the best browser for the open web. Make it a browser that empowers individuals. Make it a browser that defends users against threats.
Do not make a search engine. Do not make a translation engine. Do not make a webpage summariser. Do not make a front-end for an LLM. Do not make a client-side LLM.
Just. Make. A. Web. Browser.
Please.
