TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in.
-
@jwildeboer Does that mean that someone who doesn't use their car a whole lot should NOT fully charge the battery when recharging it?
@npt_writes @jwildeboer It depends on the car. Most now reserve some capacity from the top for longevity reasons. That is, the vehicle only charges the pack to 90% of the pack’s nominal charge, and calls that 100%. This both helps the actual capacity to degrade slower and hides the degradation for a while.
Plug-in hybrids also typically reserve about 10% of the capacity for KERS, which similarly keeps the charge above the minimum.
-
TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
Not only long lasting, but safe. Last October, a parking garage fire destroyed 30 vehicles. It begun from an Audi Q7 hybrid which caught fire while charging, but when every EV destroyed was inspected, none were found to have any damage to their battery packs.
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/max-lakkonen-b5a23868_evfire-lithiumabrion-tulipalo-activity-7397263851001511936-EZDt
@jwildeboer -
@jwildeboer Does that mean that someone who doesn't use their car a whole lot should NOT fully charge the battery when recharging it?
@npt_writes @jwildeboer The very standard advice coming from Tesla for the battery in my Tesla is to charge only to 80% unless an occasion needs a fuller charge. (That advice may be different for more modern battery chemistry.) For people whose daily driving depletes only small fraction of the charge, I think yes it’s better to avoid charging daily; my commute is long though so I’m charging back to 80% before every workday.
-
TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer This is going to hinder me from driving my Tesla until it’s dead. Clearly I need another plan to be rid of this vehicle.
-
@jwildeboer I had doubts at the outset of Hybrids, but I observed at the time that nearly every taxi in the city had already switched, so clearly the economics made sense on some level.
Now it's been about twenty years since Hybrids showed up, and I have not read about any major work being needed for batteries, certainly not a "had to replace them all in five years" scenario, which I did think was possible.
I'm fully confident about my next car being electric. Less so about the enshittified aspects of all cars these days.
@jpaskaruk @jwildeboer Early hybrids did have battery longevity problems. The first few Prius versions used a big, heavy NiMH pack which could store around 0.8 kWh (exact capacity differed over the models). It lasted around seven years before showing significant degradation in capacity, manifesting as steadily declining fuel economy.
They switched to lithium batteries a while ago, and those are both lighter (and “Lightness makes you [more efficient] everywhere.”) and longer-lived.
-
TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer I like a different conception of the EV. My industrial 3 phase motors a bomb proof, they last decades. I think the mechanicals of an EV can be profoundly more simple and durable that internal combustion vehicles. I am okay with the idea of leasing a battery and replacing it periodically. I think the focus should on standardization, re-use and recycle of batteries and the EV vehicle should be lifetime hardware.
-
@jpaskaruk @jwildeboer Early hybrids did have battery longevity problems. The first few Prius versions used a big, heavy NiMH pack which could store around 0.8 kWh (exact capacity differed over the models). It lasted around seven years before showing significant degradation in capacity, manifesting as steadily declining fuel economy.
They switched to lithium batteries a while ago, and those are both lighter (and “Lightness makes you [more efficient] everywhere.”) and longer-lived.
@bob_zim I think I do recall that, actually, but to be fair, anyone who ever tried to keep a ghetto blaster going on NiMH D-cells knows that was doomed from the start.
-
TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer i used to own a fifty-year-old Volvo.
-
This also means that buying a used EV is perfectly fine. If the used car is „younger“ than 5-7 years, the battery will be fine for years to come.
„How long do EV batteries last?
The average lifespan of EV batteries will be around 13 years or more based on observed degradation rates.“
@jwildeboer 13 jaar valt me iets tegen. Mijn benzine-auto's zijn 18 en 24 jaar oud en doen het nog goed. Dagelijks woon-werk doe ik elektrisch met een Mini uit 2021. Tot volle tevredenheid, maar het kan gebeuren dat die eerder op is dan de andere 2.
-
TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer my brain wiped Geotab until I saw the URL you shared. Thanks for bringing back some memories lol
-
@jwildeboer I like a different conception of the EV. My industrial 3 phase motors a bomb proof, they last decades. I think the mechanicals of an EV can be profoundly more simple and durable that internal combustion vehicles. I am okay with the idea of leasing a battery and replacing it periodically. I think the focus should on standardization, re-use and recycle of batteries and the EV vehicle should be lifetime hardware.
@IronManIV @jwildeboer Unfortunately, a lot of the cost of a car is the frame and body, and techniques which have dramatically lowered the cost of entry have also dramatically increased the cost of repair. Unibody construction is simpler and cheaper (and lower-rattle, etc.) than body-on-chassis-on-frame, but if it bends in a collision, good luck straightening it out and restoring it to spec strength.
-
TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer И это хорошо!
-
TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer
Nevertheless, designing for both longevity and easy maintenance for both vehicle & batteries, which would include legislated battery worldwide standardisation, form factor and easy replacement, would all be net additional positives. -
TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer Atrociously bad quality of cars if true. A car should last 25-40 years at least. No way a battery does.
-
TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer
Therefore, the batteries will be enshittified to last the duration of the warranty, then degrade swiftly.
No automaker wants their cars to last forever. -
@jwildeboer Atrociously bad quality of cars if true. A car should last 25-40 years at least. No way a battery does.
@dalias many newer cars manufactured in the past 20+ years will not make it to 25 years due to electronics failing (capacitors and mosfets are typical candidates), regardless of being powered by ICE or EV.
-
@jwildeboer
Nevertheless, designing for both longevity and easy maintenance for both vehicle & batteries, which would include legislated battery worldwide standardisation, form factor and easy replacement, would all be net additional positives.@jwildeboer
Charging networks seem like an awful waste of time if the petroleum forecourts could be repurposed into drive over battery replacement robots. With a stock of these universal batteries, 'refuelling' could be just a few minutes and an infrastructure for recycling batteries could be really efficient for a single standard battery form (maybe a couple of different form factors for different sized vehicles?) Decoupling battery from vehicle would also mean life expectancy of one doesn't impact the life expectancy of the other. -
TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer Or find a new use for car batteries in a storage solution like this (pretty smart IMHO): https://www.gridturn.com/
-
TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer with the sodium ion batteries they'll get like 25,000 cycles / 10 million miles with minimal degradation -
TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer Unfortunately, slow charging is a lot more impractical if, like me and my mom, one lives in a rented apartment where one has to park the car on the street where there's no way to charge it. Even if we could get one of the scarce parking spots on the apartment block's property, we'd then have to beg the landlord to install a charger.
