TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in.
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The amount of truly weird arguments to defend NOT being interested in switching to an EV in the replies is stunning.
@jwildeboer let me say thank you for giving me some solid numbers for the upcoming change in our garage.
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Paraphrasing:
- Electric cars will self-ignite after 10 years, that's just a fact.
- Electric cars that have been on the market for less than 10 years have not proven to be as reliable as my 35+ years old car so it's a no
- Something, something surveillance that seems to only exist in EVs
- Do they support Apple CarPlay?
- All electric cars run on 18650 cells from just three manufacturers and they all lose 50% of their capacity in max 5 years.Definitely stunning.
@jwildeboer For me it's simply the price. I started looking for a used car to bridge the next couple of years until we can go car-free (kids old enough, parents no longer in need of visits) and there are basically no offers and no appropriate car models below 15000€. Compared to the market for used gasoline cars this is just sad.
I would love to drive an electric car so much but 17000€ for a 7 year old BMW i3 is mind-boggling (you get 4 years old and much larger cars for 12K) -
@madduci From the article: "Our current dataset lacked sufficient “cold-only” samples – vehicles in consistently cold climates without a warm season – to isolate the impact of extreme cold on long-term degradation." But let's just say that Norway is at almost 90% EV for new car sales and experience there shows the (expected) range reduction in cold weather, but no faster battery degradation, as far as I can see.
@jwildeboer @madduci it's even better, Norway is at >= 97% of new sales being BEVs these days
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@jwildeboer Sadly my first EV was a lemon: 2016 Kia Soul EV that was down to 55% of its rated capacity in less than 4 years (note this is not based on reported range, but measurements of power draw to charge from 0% to 100% with an ANSI C12.20 certified energy meter). Kia refused to honor the warranty on the vehicle so I had to offload it at a loss since I couldn't even complete my commute without stopping to charge.
Now of course there's a new problem: I want an EV *without* the constant-on surveillance and data capture. The only option I see for that is doing my own conversion of an ICE vehicle (which is getting easier and easier these days, fortunately).
It would be so nice to have a single cab full bed EV pickup out here...
@notthatdelta That sure was a lemon: Our KIA eSoul ist 5yrs old and 130.000km and you can barely spot a difference to when it was new.
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@david_chisnall @jwildeboer With cars being so expensive to repair, EVs get totaled by insurance pretty readily. With the cells lasting so long, there’s very little demand for used EV batteries. As a result, they tend to be really cheap from junkyards.
I was recently looking up how much a replacement battery pack for a particular hybrid costs. Turns out it’s about $1800 for an 11 kWh pack, but while looking I also found a local wrecker selling a 75 kWh pack from a Mustang Mach-E for about $3k.
@jwildeboer @david_chisnall @bob_zim In Denmark we hava a company that has started buying up old EV batteries, removing bad cells and converting them to battery parks.Pretty interesting gridturn.com/ its very new but I think the idea is great! -
TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer looks good for the first owner. I'm usually the second/third owner. It is definitely not as cheery news for 8-15 years which is where I sit. But the current 10 year old EVs are a bit primitive, and I can't afford a decent second had EV at the moment anyway, so they should be a bit better by the time I can afford one.
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Paraphrasing:
- Electric cars will self-ignite after 10 years, that's just a fact.
- Electric cars that have been on the market for less than 10 years have not proven to be as reliable as my 35+ years old car so it's a no
- Something, something surveillance that seems to only exist in EVs
- Do they support Apple CarPlay?
- All electric cars run on 18650 cells from just three manufacturers and they all lose 50% of their capacity in max 5 years.Definitely stunning.
@jwildeboer I want to get an EV, but I do worry about their onboard software. It feels like a lot more planned obsolescence and/or enshittifiability can be packed in.
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TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer Maybe I missed it. I did not find a link to the data or study details that led to the Key Insights in this article.
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The amount of truly weird arguments to defend NOT being interested in switching to an EV in the replies is stunning.
@jwildeboer My main argument for not buying electric now would be the massive amount of improvements just around the corner, specifically solid state battery tech. I really want to go electric, but I don’t want to drive a tanky SUV just because I need to do long distance driving.
Honestly, this will be a solved problem in a couple of years. Hopefully the Donut Lab battery is not a scam
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@notthatdelta That sure was a lemon: Our KIA eSoul ist 5yrs old and 130.000km and you can barely spot a difference to when it was new.
@frank @jwildeboer I think it was their first or second year offering an EV, which was probably part of the issue. Hadn't nailed down the battery QC yet. I'm still salty about their warranty refusal though, that was extremely disappointing.
Shame too, it was a fun little car! But ~45 miles of range wasn't very useful.
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@jwildeboer Maybe I missed it. I did not find a link to the data or study details that led to the Key Insights in this article.
@kbarker Feel free to contact the publisher and author and keep us updated on what they share!
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TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer
i bet the biggest problem will be the support with new software releases ... what about Oldtimer EVs -
@jwildeboer
i bet the biggest problem will be the support with new software releases ... what about Oldtimer EVs@anduril Is that really different from ICE powered cars? Or are they somehow exempted from those connected systems that need updates?
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@frank @jwildeboer I think it was their first or second year offering an EV, which was probably part of the issue. Hadn't nailed down the battery QC yet. I'm still salty about their warranty refusal though, that was extremely disappointing.
Shame too, it was a fun little car! But ~45 miles of range wasn't very useful.
@notthatdelta OK, ours is the 64kWh Version from 2020, that is a lot newer, I think.
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TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer The batteries in my 14 year old hybrid have shown no change in efficacy since I bought it. So, this does not surprise me.
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TL;DR Most EV batteries will last longer than the cars they’re in. Battery degradation is at better (meaning: lower) rates than expected. Slow charging is better. Drive EV and don’t worry about your battery.
„Our 2025 analysis of over 22,700 electric vehicles, covering 21 different vehicle models, confirms that overall, modern EV batteries are robust and built to last beyond a typical vehicle’s service life.“
@jwildeboer I see several comments from people saying that X car lasted decades, which is interesting, but:
* Statistically most cars are replaced within 10-15 years
* No ICE car lasts that long without replacing parts
* Battery tech keeps improving while costs keep coming down, so if you want to keep a car for 50 years, that's fine. You will be able to replace the battery with a much better, cheaper one whenever you want to (whether that's 10, 20 or 30+ years from now) -
@anduril Is that really different from ICE powered cars? Or are they somehow exempted from those connected systems that need updates?
@jwildeboer
of course you're right ... thats a general problem with new cars not only EVs. I just wanted to point out that the cells are for sure not the bottleneck. -
@notthatdelta OK, ours is the 64kWh Version from 2020, that is a lot newer, I think.
@frank @jwildeboer yeah, the '16 had a 27 kWh battery and 93 miles of range. Pretty much the same territory as the older Nissan Leafs. It also lacked any sort of battery heating, so that dropped by 20-30% in cold weather.
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@jwildeboer I see several comments from people saying that X car lasted decades, which is interesting, but:
* Statistically most cars are replaced within 10-15 years
* No ICE car lasts that long without replacing parts
* Battery tech keeps improving while costs keep coming down, so if you want to keep a car for 50 years, that's fine. You will be able to replace the battery with a much better, cheaper one whenever you want to (whether that's 10, 20 or 30+ years from now)There's an assumption that batteries go to the rubbish dump at the end of a car's life. But they don't, they typically get employed as stationary storage. For instance, there's a Nissan parts factory in Victoria which relies on a collection of old Leaf batteries for stationary storage.
The batteries we already have can last ridiculously long. A Swasticar battery lasted over 600,000 km - ~40 years of average driving - before needing to be replaced.
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@jwildeboer I want to get an EV, but I do worry about their onboard software. It feels like a lot more planned obsolescence and/or enshittifiability can be packed in.
@shtrom @jwildeboer We need Fairphone (Faircar) or Graphene for the car OS/software.
