Do not comply.
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With my apologies to my German friends, but from our collective history, my most direct association is #AusweisBitte!
And it is not about age, it’s about creating a global panopticon. They (many of them the very same people) have been planning and working towards this for years.
@avuko "they" who. Rich people, tech bros etc sure @breathOfLife @Em0nM4stodon
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@catsalad @Em0nM4stodon Cc @FirewallDragons for this article
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S skorpy@chaos.social shared this topic
I ixi@mastodon.online shared this topic
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@Em0nM4stodon Whenever I see discussions about online ID/age verification come up, I tend to see a few people speaking up about ZKP (zero knowledge proofs). Admittedly, I know almost nothing about it, but a cursory read on the subject makes it sound like it could be a solution to the problem.
Of course, this is assuming that one takes the stated/claimed problems (e.g. protecting age-restricted spaces from those who are underage) at face value. When it's more likely that the goal of these programs is broad surveillance and control, which nobody would willingly accept if it was presented so plainly.
@Intaglio_Dragon @Em0nM4stodon
No it's not a solution.
Id requirements still exclude those who don't have the privilege to have the right kind of id. Even if implemented in a cryptographically sound way.
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@Intaglio_Dragon @Em0nM4stodon
No it's not a solution.
Id requirements still exclude those who don't have the privilege to have the right kind of id. Even if implemented in a cryptographically sound way.
@Intaglio_Dragon @Em0nM4stodon
And then if the client side is available only as one app you're bound to, even if the protocol itself is sound, you may still have side channels from trackers if not outright implementation security holes.
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@Em0nM4stodon
Check out the list of companies that can access ALL OF YOUR PERSONAL DATA through the most popular facial tracking company, Persona:@TheZwick32 @Em0nM4stodon and persona is linked to Thiel
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@catsalad
Evil is welcome in future, which we have been waiting for so much...
You all want technical progress, you all want super technology from your favorite anime and manga?..
Well, here you go, here you go...
So in song singing,
"Do you feel unhappy, XXI Century Man?.."
Similar technologies for about 10 years already are used in Russian Federation, but here it is, on your street comrade Major...
But, please, only don't fall to Luddite hysteria!! Progress don't return back!!
@Em0nM4stodon -
@Intaglio_Dragon @Em0nM4stodon
And then if the client side is available only as one app you're bound to, even if the protocol itself is sound, you may still have side channels from trackers if not outright implementation security holes.
@project1enigma @Em0nM4stodon I admit that my knowledge on the subject is limited, and maybe it was foolish of me to speak up in the first place.
No doubt, online ID verification shares some of the same problems as face-to-face ID verification. What I mentioned may merely be a technical solution to a non-technical problem (or, once again, I may be speaking out of ignorance).
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@Em0nM4stodon Whenever I see discussions about online ID/age verification come up, I tend to see a few people speaking up about ZKP (zero knowledge proofs). Admittedly, I know almost nothing about it, but a cursory read on the subject makes it sound like it could be a solution to the problem.
Of course, this is assuming that one takes the stated/claimed problems (e.g. protecting age-restricted spaces from those who are underage) at face value. When it's more likely that the goal of these programs is broad surveillance and control, which nobody would willingly accept if it was presented so plainly.
@Intaglio_Dragon@furry.engineer @Em0nM4stodon@infosec.exchange there is no technical solution to governments imposing authoritarian policies.
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@Intaglio_Dragon@furry.engineer @Em0nM4stodon@infosec.exchange there is no technical solution to governments imposing authoritarian policies.
@Intaglio_Dragon@furry.engineer @Em0nM4stodon@infosec.exchange if verifying id was actually the goal (not to mention a useful or productive goal), perhaps, but it's almost always a means of tracking and controlling populations. offering concessions to that pursuit is ridiculous
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@Em0nM4stodon Whenever I see discussions about online ID/age verification come up, I tend to see a few people speaking up about ZKP (zero knowledge proofs). Admittedly, I know almost nothing about it, but a cursory read on the subject makes it sound like it could be a solution to the problem.
Of course, this is assuming that one takes the stated/claimed problems (e.g. protecting age-restricted spaces from those who are underage) at face value. When it's more likely that the goal of these programs is broad surveillance and control, which nobody would willingly accept if it was presented so plainly.
@Intaglio_Dragon @Em0nM4stodon even if it worked (no one can explain toe how.their system is both anonymous and can't be gamed by someone handing out ZKP tokens like Halloween candy) there's also the matter.that we're giving unaccountable control of what people under 18/25/whatever can see or do to people who freely admit they want to do anti LGBT stuff with it, and that's just the start. What else will whoever decides this deem "harmful to Minors"
The whole thing's evil
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@Intaglio_Dragon@furry.engineer @Em0nM4stodon@infosec.exchange if verifying id was actually the goal (not to mention a useful or productive goal), perhaps, but it's almost always a means of tracking and controlling populations. offering concessions to that pursuit is ridiculous
@etsyy @Intaglio_Dragon @Em0nM4stodon even suggesting it helps legitimize it. And we k.ow that they won't be using your bespoke crypto. They're uploading your ID to the pedophile Nazi vampire peter thiel, who then scans against 34 police databases (hey! We were promised this was just an age check!) And then leaves it so insecure the people who leak it Can't be called hackers because they didn't even have to hack anything to get all of it
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@TheZwick32 @Em0nM4stodon and persona is linked to Thiel
@project1enigma @TheZwick32 @Em0nM4stodon who in turn is linked to Epstein
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@Intaglio_Dragon@furry.engineer @Em0nM4stodon@infosec.exchange there is no technical solution to governments imposing authoritarian policies.
@etsyy @Intaglio_Dragon @Em0nM4stodon
The French came up with a technology to deal with overbearing elites a wee while back...
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@Intaglio_Dragon@furry.engineer @Em0nM4stodon@infosec.exchange if verifying id was actually the goal (not to mention a useful or productive goal), perhaps, but it's almost always a means of tracking and controlling populations. offering concessions to that pursuit is ridiculous
@etsyy @Intaglio_Dragon
I was once involved in an idea around technical id verification (which I abandoned for ethical reasons). There is no technical solution to this either that isn't completely dystopian as far as I can tell.Chosing to trust people can only be done in a non-technical way, and the cost of broken trust is much lower than the cost of lacking trust.
I don't have the spoons to write down the whole argument, but I hope more people can trust this to be correct
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@etsyy @Intaglio_Dragon
I was once involved in an idea around technical id verification (which I abandoned for ethical reasons). There is no technical solution to this either that isn't completely dystopian as far as I can tell.Chosing to trust people can only be done in a non-technical way, and the cost of broken trust is much lower than the cost of lacking trust.
I don't have the spoons to write down the whole argument, but I hope more people can trust this to be correct
@iwein@mas.to @Intaglio_Dragon@furry.engineer @Em0nM4stodon@infosec.exchange on the surface, in a vacuum, I'm not against id verification or adjacent, but seeing as we don't live in a vacuum, I'm always forced to ask "why?" and then the subsequent "how?", neither of which have ever received a satisfactory response.
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@iwein@mas.to @Intaglio_Dragon@furry.engineer @Em0nM4stodon@infosec.exchange on the surface, in a vacuum, I'm not against id verification or adjacent, but seeing as we don't live in a vacuum, I'm always forced to ask "why?" and then the subsequent "how?", neither of which have ever received a satisfactory response.
@iwein@mas.to @Intaglio_Dragon@furry.engineer @Em0nM4stodon@infosec.exchange they are always predicated on some sense of exclusion or superiority and are intended to be enforced via extremely easily manipulated and corruptible means.
tldr reductive and unproductive. a waste of time
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@iwein@mas.to @Intaglio_Dragon@furry.engineer @Em0nM4stodon@infosec.exchange they are always predicated on some sense of exclusion or superiority and are intended to be enforced via extremely easily manipulated and corruptible means.
tldr reductive and unproductive. a waste of time
I find the subject very interesting, so I'll go into it a little bit more. Even though I agree with your conclusion that it is a waste of time, I also think it's not a waste of time to understand the mechanisms you're touching on. And they're very poorly understood by most people.
I am myself a counter example to the premise that they're always based on exclusion or superiority…or I stand to be corrected (please feel free to do that).
I'll share the example. (1/n)
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I find the subject very interesting, so I'll go into it a little bit more. Even though I agree with your conclusion that it is a waste of time, I also think it's not a waste of time to understand the mechanisms you're touching on. And they're very poorly understood by most people.
I am myself a counter example to the premise that they're always based on exclusion or superiority…or I stand to be corrected (please feel free to do that).
I'll share the example. (1/n)
@etsyy why?
My (foolish) intention was to enable global universal base income for all humans.
The trick my left brain came up with was to id all humans, and then automatically give them a set amount of money on a certain schedule.
how? 1
The money would be sent to the wallet unlocked by an id, and naturally disappear from the system on the death of the individual. I still think that would create a fairer society in theory, but it hinges on the id mechanism. (2/n)
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@etsyy why?
My (foolish) intention was to enable global universal base income for all humans.
The trick my left brain came up with was to id all humans, and then automatically give them a set amount of money on a certain schedule.
how? 1
The money would be sent to the wallet unlocked by an id, and naturally disappear from the system on the death of the individual. I still think that would create a fairer society in theory, but it hinges on the id mechanism. (2/n)
@etsyy
how? 2To id people consistently (to prevent fraud), you'll need biometrics and/or some kind of central authority. And that's where the id breaks down into dystopia.
failure
in this design id becomes power, and id-ing people is not free. This means that identifying authorities have power over people, and whenever this happens, superiority and exclusion are more or less natural consequences.
I found that this idea was most appealing to fascists, for entirely the wrong reasons…
(3/n)
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@etsyy
how? 2To id people consistently (to prevent fraud), you'll need biometrics and/or some kind of central authority. And that's where the id breaks down into dystopia.
failure
in this design id becomes power, and id-ing people is not free. This means that identifying authorities have power over people, and whenever this happens, superiority and exclusion are more or less natural consequences.
I found that this idea was most appealing to fascists, for entirely the wrong reasons…
(3/n)
@etsyy I even ended up being invited to a meeting with a guy that publicly said the Neurenberg trials were illegitimate, while his friends were telling me it was a great investible idea, we should just nix the UBI from it and not deploy it in Africa.
Reads like bad fiction novel, but actually happened.
So yeah, I felt rightfully stupid for wasting my time on that, fried my brain, and became the crazy commie activist idiot I am now
(The End)
